@5pinlink said:
No it was mossing some note ons and note offs too when switching, which cant be rozetta or TB.
True indeed, but what I mean is that missing note offs will in most synths not result in silence; that was a very specific TM issue. Other synths will more likely exhibit stuck notes or voice stealing clicks, etc.
@mefisme said: @5pinlink I appreciate letting me know the history as to why this might be happening. That helps. Well now it happens to all audio from external midi. Plugin or not. And that’s my issue I guess. It’s broke as a performance tool but not a production tool. And since it’s on the performance page you could see why I flipped out. Lol. I’m totally calm here and patient. But I did want to point it out to save this ever so important concept.
So audio tracks are cutting out too, so its gotten worse, will try to replicate
@mefisme said: @5pinlink I appreciate letting me know the history as to why this might be happening. That helps. Well now it happens to all audio from external midi. Plugin or not. And that’s my issue I guess. It’s broke as a performance tool but not a production tool. And since it’s on the performance page you could see why I flipped out. Lol. I’m totally calm here and patient. But I did want to point it out to save this ever so important concept.
So audio tracks are cutting out too, so its gotten worse, will try to replicate
Audio samples on pads. We don’t have a select option for audio tracks. It does it all over BM3. Perf view, samp view, mix view.
Devs were probably protecting from additional audio problems or app crash when cut/copy/clear/paste on perf view was implemented.> @ronji said:
I'm still pretty sure this is not causing actual audio to cut out, so not audio tracks, but purely a midi issue. Right??
Yes, there is no need for select on audio tracks. How else does audio not cut out when everything is MIDI in BM3 minus audio tracks. Samples themselves aren’t, but triggering a pad sure is.
@mefisme but I mean even audio in bank pads, if the midi triggers a one shot sample to play, it doesn't stop playing even if a note off is sent, so audio isnt just stopping, right?
Also, I'm not trying to downplay any of this issue, it is already clearly bad enough with select sending midi off. Why would select mode affect midi at all, if any of this is even partially intentional?
@ronji said:
I'm still pretty sure this is not causing actual audio to cut out, so not audio tracks, but purely a midi issue. Right??
I don’t know if you care to find and see the problem on any of the views, but you can simulate a physical controller doing the same thing.
You’d have to hack a pad to perform a loop as a continous one shot to simulate the behavior. This would be a simulation of a user using external gear (triggering a toggle)
@ronji said: @mefisme but I mean even audio in bank pads, if the midi triggers a one shot sample to play, it doesn't stop playing even if a note off is sent, so audio isnt just stopping, right?
Also, I'm not trying to downplay any of this issue, it is already clearly bad enough with select sending midi off. Why would select mode affect midi at all, if any of this is even partially intentional?
Top answer: depends when you hit select
Bottom answer: To protect probably from an app crash when cutting or copying pads I would think on perf views new pad select features. Or to fix a latching/sustain issues.
First I play fast one shots, no cut out.
Second I play medium notes, no cut out.
Third I play long sustained notes, no cut out.
There must be some other factor at play here that I am missing completely.
@5pinlink said:
First I play fast one shots, no cut out.
Second I play medium notes, no cut out.
Third I play long sustained notes, no cut out.
There must be some other factor at play here that I am missing completely.
@5pinlink said:
Yes, sorry that should have read "Patterns plays xyz"
All good. Audio cut out from MIDI won't happen this way I don't think. It has to be physically played. A pattern recorded is a production. Playing to the play head is where the problem is mostly.
@mefisme said:
It also seems single tap on a mixer pad in bank is now killing patterns midi. I have no idea what’s going on.
Was your video referencing this? If so, this audio cut out happens to me only if the midi note hold mode is set and the note is dragged out in the patterns loop duration. A single tap in manual says it's supposed to select the pad. And a double tap is supposed to be the trigger. Audio cuts out on a single tap. I would understand the cut out if I trigger it while the pattern is playing, but not selection. Didn't do this before 3.09. Can you confirm?
Not sure if related or still an issue, haven't checked on most recent. But had same kind of thing in piano roll or pattern edit view. Can't recall which exactly. But Touching screen would briefly mute that pad. Will try to test when get a minute.
I don’t use an external midi controller either. In case it helps, in my case only sounds triggered by Rozeta are muted. It happens when I choose select in pad view, regardless of the currently selected bank. Anything triggered from the bm3 sequencer behaves normally.
@mathieugarcia any word on audio output behavior when tapping select either on iPad or with external controllers? Use single channel to test. You'll find all the problems. Plugins or audio. Just tap SELECT, and the pads that are not bound by SELECT lose audio. It will happen with any plugin and iPad users can test that. External controller users experience both. Midi Omni off. No focus actions. EDIT:erased this text. Was a different problem unrelated to this And also a single tap of a pad under mixer view when showing all pads when a sample is in HOLD mode is now triggering (doing a double tap) instead of selecting.
Need video?
One more thing:. You would need two external controllers to see the full effect of the problem at hand post 3.08. and three to see it even worse. Or one controller assigned to 2 banks with independent channels. Or just route any plugin outputting midi using single channel. We know SELECT will disable audio output if it is the pad is physically selected. I'm talking about all pads that are not bound by SELECT.
@Heyez said:
Quick bump and to confirm im getting the same issue with 'Select' mode muting pads..
Thanks for the confirmation. All I'm saying is SELECT mode on performance view should not stop any audio or midi being played. Only the audio output when triggering a pad bound by a hybrid selection. Not the pads that use single channel multi channel. It changed. It seems as if the new cut copy paste features are listening to all pads in a bank, not just those that are actually selected and using the new tools. The cut copy paste clear pads buttons themselves should stop the audio/midi for only that pad.
If Intua doesn't care to the fact that they just disabled a powerful thing of Beatmaker 3 they already had, then I guess it doesn't matter. I know people wanted copy cut and paste on performance view. Yeah, it's frickin handy. But it did truly take away features of extreme power that were already there. I hope this is being looked into. Darn hybrid select boxes. I knew they were going to be a potential problem.
The proper fix is in my opinion an EDIT MODE on performance view that houses the controls for Cut Copy clear paste pads. It can behave just as SELECT right now except the select control would be greyed out when you were in edit mode and vice versa when you select SELECT mode. This way SELECT gets restored as a Performance and Production Tool an edit mode would be just a Production Tool. But the only problem with this is if somebody wanted to cut copy clear paste a pad while music is playing. Id take that trade off over killing performance as I don't think moving pads live would be a thing. I don't know what the best strategy is. Sigh.
Wouldn't the proper fix be that pressing the SELECT button doesn't do anything at all except for allow you to silently select pads? No trigger, no mute, no anything, just enable select. Shouldn't cut, copy, paste, never do anything except for cut or copy or paste? I could see someone utilizing these in a performance, and they should not interrupt that performance in any way.
@ronji said:
Wouldn't the proper fix be that pressing the SELECT button doesn't do anything at all except for allow you to silently select pads? No trigger, no mute, no anything, just enable select. Shouldn't cut, copy, paste, never do anything except for cut or copy or paste? I could see someone utilizing these in a performance, and they should not interrupt that performance in any way.
Good thinking. Absolutely yes. But we are dealing with three independent selection/trigger systems in BM3 that are also not independently separated from the pattern editor. SELECT MODE itself, and selection triggers (like your in OMNI MODE or using focus actions), and single/multi channel for external controllers/plugins. I think all three are actually creating a conflict across the entire app. Because each pad is an instrument and a trigger pad. The only true purpose of SELECT mode on performance view is to prepare keys or your next pad trigger. That’s really it..its why we have momentary options in focus actions. .but the controls are also tied to the pattern editor selections/triggers so select is very much a multipurpose tool. If select only listened to for the physical tap and not the selection triggers then that would be the proper fix but then multitouch support would have to change drastically as well I think. Maybe even the pattern editor. This is why it's dangerous. I didn’t want to propose a complete code rewrite so I thought an EDIT mode. This way pads being triggered outside of select trigger bounding boxes wouldn't cut out.
We really need a name for the bounding boxes outside of select mode. They are completely misleading because they are doing two things at once. Selecting and triggering. SELECT MODE is just a selection without trigger. And single channe/multichannel midi setups introduced pads being triggered without selection.
@ronji said:
Wouldn't the proper fix be that pressing the SELECT button doesn't do anything at all except for allow you to silently select pads? No trigger, no mute, no anything, just enable select. Shouldn't cut, copy, paste, never do anything except for cut or copy or paste? I could see someone utilizing these in a performance, and they should not interrupt that performance in any way.
Comments
True indeed, but what I mean is that missing note offs will in most synths not result in silence; that was a very specific TM issue. Other synths will more likely exhibit stuck notes or voice stealing clicks, etc.
So audio tracks are cutting out too, so its gotten worse, will try to replicate
Audio samples on pads. We don’t have a select option for audio tracks. It does it all over BM3. Perf view, samp view, mix view.
I'm still pretty sure this is not causing actual audio to cut out, so not audio tracks, but purely a midi issue. Right??
Devs were probably protecting from additional audio problems or app crash when cut/copy/clear/paste on perf view was implemented.> @ronji said:
Yes, there is no need for select on audio tracks. How else does audio not cut out when everything is MIDI in BM3 minus audio tracks. Samples themselves aren’t, but triggering a pad sure is.
@mefisme but I mean even audio in bank pads, if the midi triggers a one shot sample to play, it doesn't stop playing even if a note off is sent, so audio isnt just stopping, right?
Also, I'm not trying to downplay any of this issue, it is already clearly bad enough with select sending midi off. Why would select mode affect midi at all, if any of this is even partially intentional?
I don’t know if you care to find and see the problem on any of the views, but you can simulate a physical controller doing the same thing.
You’d have to hack a pad to perform a loop as a continous one shot to simulate the behavior. This would be a simulation of a user using external gear (triggering a toggle)
It also seems single tap on a mixer pad in bank is now killing patterns midi. I have no idea what’s going on.
Top answer: depends when you hit select
Bottom answer: To protect probably from an app crash when cutting or copying pads I would think on perf views new pad select features. Or to fix a latching/sustain issues.
First I play fast one shots, no cut out.
Second I play medium notes, no cut out.
Third I play long sustained notes, no cut out.
There must be some other factor at play here that I am missing completely.
@ronji wait you said one shot. Umm. I think correct. The audio tail still plays out if select is selected before or after the midi note was produced.
Is this recorded to a pattern?
Yes, sorry that should have read "Patterns plays xyz"
All good. Audio cut out from MIDI won't happen this way I don't think. It has to be physically played. A pattern recorded is a production. Playing to the play head is where the problem is mostly.
Was your video referencing this? If so, this audio cut out happens to me only if the midi note hold mode is set and the note is dragged out in the patterns loop duration. A single tap in manual says it's supposed to select the pad. And a double tap is supposed to be the trigger. Audio cuts out on a single tap. I would understand the cut out if I trigger it while the pattern is playing, but not selection. Didn't do this before 3.09. Can you confirm?
I’m out, sorry I have no external controller set up at the minute to test, this has nothing to do with the previous issue, sorry for any confusion.
Not sure if related or still an issue, haven't checked on most recent. But had same kind of thing in piano roll or pattern edit view. Can't recall which exactly. But Touching screen would briefly mute that pad. Will try to test when get a minute.
I don’t use an external midi controller either. In case it helps, in my case only sounds triggered by Rozeta are muted. It happens when I choose select in pad view, regardless of the currently selected bank. Anything triggered from the bm3 sequencer behaves normally.
@mathieugarcia any word on audio output behavior when tapping select either on iPad or with external controllers? Use single channel to test. You'll find all the problems. Plugins or audio. Just tap SELECT, and the pads that are not bound by SELECT lose audio. It will happen with any plugin and iPad users can test that. External controller users experience both. Midi Omni off. No focus actions. EDIT: erased this text. Was a different problem unrelated to this And also a single tap of a pad under mixer view when showing all pads when a sample is in HOLD mode is now triggering (doing a double tap) instead of selecting.
Need video?
One more thing:. You would need two external controllers to see the full effect of the problem at hand post 3.08. and three to see it even worse. Or one controller assigned to 2 banks with independent channels. Or just route any plugin outputting midi using single channel. We know SELECT will disable audio output if it is the pad is physically selected. I'm talking about all pads that are not bound by SELECT.
Quick bump and to confirm im getting the same issue with 'Select' mode muting pads..
Thanks for the confirmation. All I'm saying is SELECT mode on performance view should not stop any audio or midi being played. Only the audio output when triggering a pad bound by a hybrid selection. Not the pads that use single channel multi channel. It changed. It seems as if the new cut copy paste features are listening to all pads in a bank, not just those that are actually selected and using the new tools. The cut copy paste clear pads buttons themselves should stop the audio/midi for only that pad.
If Intua doesn't care to the fact that they just disabled a powerful thing of Beatmaker 3 they already had, then I guess it doesn't matter. I know people wanted copy cut and paste on performance view. Yeah, it's frickin handy. But it did truly take away features of extreme power that were already there. I hope this is being looked into. Darn hybrid select boxes. I knew they were going to be a potential problem.
The proper fix is in my opinion an EDIT MODE on performance view that houses the controls for Cut Copy clear paste pads. It can behave just as SELECT right now except the select control would be greyed out when you were in edit mode and vice versa when you select SELECT mode. This way SELECT gets restored as a Performance and Production Tool an edit mode would be just a Production Tool. But the only problem with this is if somebody wanted to cut copy clear paste a pad while music is playing. Id take that trade off over killing performance as I don't think moving pads live would be a thing. I don't know what the best strategy is. Sigh.
Wouldn't the proper fix be that pressing the SELECT button doesn't do anything at all except for allow you to silently select pads? No trigger, no mute, no anything, just enable select. Shouldn't cut, copy, paste, never do anything except for cut or copy or paste? I could see someone utilizing these in a performance, and they should not interrupt that performance in any way.
Good thinking. Absolutely yes. But we are dealing with three independent selection/trigger systems in BM3 that are also not independently separated from the pattern editor. SELECT MODE itself, and selection triggers (like your in OMNI MODE or using focus actions), and single/multi channel for external controllers/plugins. I think all three are actually creating a conflict across the entire app. Because each pad is an instrument and a trigger pad. The only true purpose of SELECT mode on performance view is to prepare keys or your next pad trigger. That’s really it..its why we have momentary options in focus actions. .but the controls are also tied to the pattern editor selections/triggers so select is very much a multipurpose tool. If select only listened to for the physical tap and not the selection triggers then that would be the proper fix but then multitouch support would have to change drastically as well I think. Maybe even the pattern editor. This is why it's dangerous. I didn’t want to propose a complete code rewrite so I thought an EDIT mode. This way pads being triggered outside of select trigger bounding boxes wouldn't cut out.
We really need a name for the bounding boxes outside of select mode. They are completely misleading because they are doing two things at once. Selecting and triggering. SELECT MODE is just a selection without trigger. And single channe/multichannel midi setups introduced pads being triggered without selection.
+1. Exactly this!