Anyone using bluetooth headphones with BM3?

Hi guys so my Ipad's headphone output isn't working properly so I'm thinking about getting Bluetooth in ears. Is there any lag as I notice there's lag when I synced my Ipad with a bluetooth receiver I have at home. Thoughts? Cheers. :smile:

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Comments

  • edited January 16

    Bluetooth audio always lags

    The amount varies from device to device, but you won't find any of them suitable for making music.

    We're talking between 100-200ms delay

  • edited January 16

    Try hooking up a bluetooth speaker or headset, and watching either of these videos:

    Assuming your device isn't making some internal compensation (ie delaying the video to match the bluetooth audio) then you should be able to see roughly how much lag your bluetooth device is adding.

  • As @tk32 Said, Bluetooth audio is going to have noticable latency from real time activities. Videos are typically adjusted automatically to compensate for the latency.

  • edited January 16

    Yeah - some devices and headsets use a bluetooth latency compensation system for video (ie delaying the picture to restore sync with the audio) but this is not possible with real time activities such as video games or music making

  • If the headphone port is really not an option any longer, I'd recommend getting a headphone adapter for the charging port, or an audio interface that can accommodate what you'd what to connect including midi and audio.

  • Chaps would compressed air fix the headphone socket?

  • @The_Bro said:
    Chaps would compressed air fix the headphone socket?

    Maybe, just be careful with it. I dunno how air tight an audio port is, or where seals might exist in your iPad, so I would recommend going easy with the canned air. Also do NOT tilt that can, tilt the iPad, so you don't get any liquid coming from the canned air.

    I've personally improved my headphone jacks and charging ports on multiple devices by using a toothpick, twist tie, pipe cleaner, etc. Just has to be small enough to get in there and dig out any lint or dust.

  • edited January 16

    @The_Bro

    I use slightly damp cotton buds (q-tips) and interdental brushes when the headphone socket on my phone accumulates lint.

    Compressed air won't work until you've dislodged the mass, because it gets compacted by the headphone jack pushing it down

  • I've put some rolled up sellotape in the headphone socket button nothing came out. Its really clean as a whistle from what I can tell.

  • edited January 16

    Does the Jack click in securely?

    You can usually tell there's build up when it feels slightly loose, or when the slightest touch loses the connection in one or both ears

    I doubt the sellotape is the right thing to dislodge the 'lint tablet'. Have you tried shining a torch down the hole?

  • @tk32 said:
    Does the Jack click in securely?

    You can usually tell there's build up when it feels slightly loose, or when the slightest touch loses the connection in one or both ears

    I doubt the sellotape is the right thing to dislodge the 'lint tablet'. Have you tried shining a torch down the hole?

    Its just slightly louder in the left by say 25/30%. Yeah it fits in nice and tightly.

  • How many pairs of headphones have you tried ?

  • In some cases if the jack is 'dirty' try to rotate the plug while it's in the hole to see if it makes any differences, in some cases you might hear some 'noises' while rotating the plug. If that's the case it's dirty connections...

  • @winconway said:
    How many pairs of headphones have you tried ?

    2 I think.

  • Try more, old headphones with knackered connectors are more common than broken ports, so worth making sure.

  • Hello, first post, good to be here.

    I use Steelseries Arctis 7 Bluetooth headphones. They’re ultra low latency gaming headphones. I read about them on a guitar forum when looking to replace some old analogue rf headphones and thought I’d try them. I love them, no noticeable latency (to my ears), reasonable sound quality and long battery life (at least 12 hours). Watch out for fakes though, I believe they (like many headphones) are not always genuine.

    Also you need a usb battery or other usb power for the transmitter. No wires gives me great joy.

  • @steve99 said:

    Also you need a usb battery or other usb power for the transmitter. No wires gives me great joy.

    Curious, did you connect the transmitter directly to the iPad?

  • edited January 20

    @steve99 welcome to the forum, and thanks for your suggestion

    They sound like good headphones, and I'm pleased you like them, but unfortunately there are several reasons I would not recommend a wireless gaming headset to other users reading this thread (especially those that like to make music on the go)...

    1. The need for a transmitter (regardless of how it's powered)
    2. Latency over 2.4 GHz is still around 30ms (although much faster than Bluetooth)
    3. They are bulky and heavy for travel/mobile use - and batteries will need recharging regularly.
    4. Their sound is tailored to gaming so bass frequencies, for example, are usually boosted significantly.
      .

    Wireless gaming headsets use 2.4 GHz instead of Bluetooth (it's possible your headset supports both), in which case they are able to get latency down to around 30ms -- instead of the 100-200ms associated with Bluetooth.

    What concerns me most about using a gaming headset for making (and mixing) music is that it very likely has a fairly noticeable v-shaped sound profile, which means the bass and treble are boosted to make gaming more enjoyable.

    If you use a headset with boosted bass to mix a track then (ironically) you end up with a very bass-weak mix, because you balanced the track to sound good on headphones with boosted bass. Having said this, if you compare your track with a well-mixed reference track in the same genre on the same headphones, you should stand a better chance of not weakening the mix too much

  • Hello again.

    Firstly, the transmitter connects via 3.5mm mini jack, either direct to iPad or to an audio interface. There’s a usb cable that you connect for power.

    Secondly, i’m well aware of the audio quality limitations. I have a studio with decent monitors for when I want to be serious, but my main use for these headphones is when I am mobile or jamming in my living room.

    Coming to them initially for practising guitar, latency was my number one concern, but I was amazed with how good they were. Now, that may reflect my own ‘timeless’ qualities, but it certainly aids my music making.

    In short, I’m delighted with them as a musician, not just some guy with a pair of gaming headphones. I haven’t done the latency maths, but when I hit a drum pad I hear a drum pad.

    They are admittedly quite bulky and over spec’d for purpose, with a built in mic (that you can’t use for musical purposes), but any decent headphones for mobile use would be similar in size (and they fold flat).

    Maybe not for purists, but if you could see me standing on the back of my sofa rocking out on my guitar to a beatmaker track from my iPad 10 feet away then I think you’d see the attraction.

    Try some out would be my advice. Then, if positive, lobby Steel series to make some for iOS music makers.

  • edited January 21

    @tk32 said:
    @steve99 welcome to the forum, and thanks for your suggestion

    They sound like good headphones, and I'm pleased you like them, but unfortunately there are several reasons I would not recommend a wireless gaming headset to other users reading this thread (especially those that like to make music on the go)...

    1. The need for a transmitter (regardless of how it's powered)
    2. Latency over 2.4 GHz is still around 30ms (although much faster than Bluetooth)
    3. They are bulky and heavy for travel/mobile use - and batteries will need recharging regularly.
    4. Their sound is tailored to gaming so bass frequencies, for example, are usually boosted significantly.
      .

    Wireless gaming headsets use 2.4 GHz instead of Bluetooth (it's possible your headset supports both), in which case they are able to get latency down to around 30ms -- instead of the 100-200ms associated with Bluetooth.

    What concerns me most about using a gaming headset for making (and mixing) music is that it very likely has a fairly noticeable v-shaped sound profile, which means the bass and treble are boosted to make gaming more enjoyable.

    If you use a headset with boosted bass to mix a track then (ironically) you end up with a very bass-weak mix, because you balanced the track to sound good on headphones with boosted bass. Having said this, if you compare your track with a well-mixed reference track in the same genre on the same headphones, you should stand a better chance of not weakening the mix too much

    @tk32 There is truth to “some” of what you say but not sure about “all” bluetooth stuff is not recommended From what Iam hearing (pun intended) the iLoud Micro Bluetooth Monitors” are getting excellent reviews and feedback (another pun) :smile:

  • No Bluetooth is recommended, if the iLoud is getting great reviews it is from uninformed buffoons.
    Bluetooth has inherent built in latency, Bluetooth has inherent bandwidth restricting (lost frequencies)
    Cigarettes once got great reviews too, mostly paid for reviews, oh wait, IK multimedia, nuff said lol.

  • @beatmakerstorm have you watched the computerphile video I posted at the very start of this thread? It's a great explanation of why Bluetooth will always require lag compensation (which is not possible with live interactions such as video games and music production)

    I'll definitely check out the iLouds, but I suspect it's marketing hype. "Ultra low latency" could still mean 80ms+, for example.

  • @tk32 said:
    @beatmakerstorm have you watched the computerphile video I posted at the very start of this thread? It's a great explanation of why Bluetooth will always require lag compensation (which is not possible with live interactions such as video games and music production)

    I'll definitely check out the iLouds, but I suspect it's marketing hype. "Ultra low latency" could still mean 80ms+, for example.

    True to a degree but many on the road sound engineers are giving great reviews..Iam going to buy some personally. But will test them for sure in the shop. Oldschool style .

  • @winconway said:
    No Bluetooth is recommended, if the iLoud is getting great reviews it is from uninformed buffoons.
    Bluetooth has inherent built in latency, Bluetooth has inherent bandwidth restricting (lost frequencies)
    Cigarettes once got great reviews too, mostly paid for reviews, oh wait, IK multimedia, nuff said lol.

    I miss the old days where cigarette campaings were everywhere..and could smoke in a pub , club, train ...bring those days back . I think from what lot of people are saying the iLouds latency is not too bad plus they have cable option if they go really out of range regarding latency

  • edited January 21

    Sorry to be a party-pooper @beatmakerstorm - but in Bluetooth mode these are rated at 155ms+ :(

    From their own website:

    https://www.ikmultimedia.com/products/iloudmm/index.php?p=specs

    I'm sure they sound great though, and super fast when wired, so I may check them out properly when I next plan to buy some speakers.

  • @tk32 said:
    Sorry to be a party-pooper @beatmakerstorm - but in Bluetooth mode these are rated at 155ms+ :(

    From their own website:

    https://www.ikmultimedia.com/products/iloudmm/index.php?p=specs

    I'm sure they sound great though, and super fast when wired, so I may check them out properly when I next plan to buy some speakers.

    Cool - iam getting them ..for mixing mainly .

  • edited January 21

    Let me know how you like them.

    I'll be on the lookout for something similar soon -though I haven't done any research recently. I might even get these too :)

  • @tk32 said:
    Let me know how you like them.

    I'll be on the lookout for something similar soon -though I haven't done any research recently. I might even get these too :)

    Cool will do in about a week or 2 ..I may have convinced you. Joking . But from the “user” reviews they seem to be very good.

  • I’ve listened to the IK Multimedia iLoud Micro Monitors hard wired and they do sound very good. As with all IK Multimedia they are priced right at the point of pain for what they are and they (as with all IK) have a proprietary power connector for no good reason. Another needlesss revenue sucking move.

    FWIW I am a retired audio and video production specialist my work included over a decade of front of house audio as well as studio engineering and maintenance.

  • Glad to have you aboard @ampapps - hope you don't mind if we take advantage of your wealth of experience and pick your brains from time to time...

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