When Adding a Pattern it Contains Midi
When I add a new pattern in the sequencer view, that pattern contains the midi in the previous clip clip. This seems like incorrect behavior, particularly given that there is already a 'duplicate' method.
If I delete an existing pattern, and then add a new pattern, BM3 restores that previous pattern rather than creating a blank pattern. Again, this seems like incorrect behavior.
Comments
Confirmed
confirmed - that is a major error not good at all. Needs sorting asap.
yes same thing here
i take my words back it seems ok here i think it done it once before but that may be my error will llook into it
Definitely still broke here.
ok checked on my air2 and pro12.9 seems ok here
check on different banks maybe a bug on certain bank.
It does it on any pattern or bank i create
Confirmed. What does it say it’s suppose to do in manual?
Because what it’s actually doing is re-adding the previously created or selected pattern But if the manual says it supposed to create a new pattern then this is false information as it only does this if no patterns have been created yet.
Manual states correct behavior. This is not a bug.
I wonder at this point if this was a bug and it was fixed, or if everyone was double tapping and expecting a new pattern to be created. I wonder, because no one said they were double tapping, just that they were creating a new pattern somehow, but then I don’t see a new pattern button except for in the track helper, which is technically available in sequencer view as well as all other views. Because it should be pretty clear that double tapping isn’t creating anything new, just kind of doing the repeat function at the grid section you tap, which is something I could stand to remember as a feature. I often use repeat and then drag, when I could just select a pattern and then double tap the other grid area where I want it repeated!
It feels like a repeat function except it does so based on grid division. Place pattern anywhere instead of drag arrows.
It does create new patterns. It all based on lack of selection and what's deleted or has not yet existed in pattern panel under the track helper.
No pattern selected/created - double tap behavior creates new pat
Working Pattern selected - double tap places that pattern.
I guess I mean it doesn’t create new patterns unless you have not yet created any patterns in that bank, it will create pattern 1 as it didn’t have anything previously set as the working pattern. It does seem like it could be a bug when you delete a pattern, either from the track helper or from the pattern menu at the bottom of the sequencer view, it gets recreated when you double tap, but this doesn’t happen if you simply select another pattern that still exists in the timeline. I’m assuming that’s a bug, because I would think the undo button would be the logical way to bring back a pattern you just deleted. Because if you delete a pattern (not remove from timeline, but really delete) you can go do other things in bm3 and as long as that bank’s last working pattern was one you deleted, it will get recreated when you double tap. So it’s kinda like an unexpected undo pattern deletion feature, but that functionality disappears when you select another pattern in that bank. If it’s a feature, it’s a weird one. Perhaps a pattern recycle bin would make more sense.
edit: My bad for doing testing with empty patterns. I programmed some midi notes into patterns, deleted them, and what was then created was not that deleted pattern but a new pattern with the next available pattern number. Delete pattern 1 after pattern 2 exists, double tap on the timeline after deleting pattern 1 and a new pattern 1 will be created, without any midi data. It doesn't seem there's any pattern necromancy going on without the undo button.
Also, a new pattern will be created when double tapping as long as you have done something after selecting a working pattern. This one is hard for me to explain, but if you tap to select pattern 2 on the timeline, it is the working pattern and will be placed when double tapping somewhere else in that bank's track, and similarly if you select pattern 3 in the track helper, thus activating the pattern, pattern 3 will be placed wherever you double tap on the timeline in that bank's track, but if you press "play song" in the track helper, you deactivate pattern 3, and now double tapping on the bank's track will actually create a new blank pattern.
Not really a problem as a manual is not supposed to be so precise. This is part of it the discovery aspect of software that nobody seems to bother to try and then gets all frazzled and posts as a bug. Leading to mass widespread miseducation.
@ronji undo restores the midi, double tap does not. Not the same behavior. I would assume people also forget hold undo/redo to get history as well. For bulk returns.
Yeah, I realized I shouldn't have been testing with blank patterns that had not been renamed.
but I found additional behavior in the app, which definitely helps with my understanding of pattern placement and creation. But thanks for the reminder because I actually did forget about holding undo/redo!
But also, selecting a pattern then deselecting it by tapping somewhere else on the timeline does not change that the previously selected pattern is still the working pattern, until you do something specific like pressing play song after activating a pattern in the track helper. Even if you tap bank B pattern 1 on the timeline, then you delete pattern 2 in the track helper, and you deselect all patterns by tapping a blank area of the timeline, and you select some random pattern in bank A, double tapping on the bank B track will place pattern 1, as it's still the working pattern for bank B.
This is broken or simply the worst design decision in history.
Double tap creates a repeat of selected pattern, but you can only select patterns on the timeline, not in the helper, but if you want to create an empty pattern you have to open the track helper.
Which when you create new pattern (still not selected anywhere) will now enter that on double tap instead of the currently selected pattern.
So to recap, double tap repeats selected pattern, but wait, if you have a pattern selected and create a new patern, the selected pattern is no longer repeated...etc etc etc.
It reads like a government document, utter nonsense that could easily and simply be fixed...
If no pattern selected, double tap creates new pattern, if pattern selected double tap repeats selected pattern.
That is how it should be, end of story.
@5pinlink yeah, it's confusing for sure. agreed - the clearly currently selected pattern should be the only "working" pattern for double tap placement, otherwise if no pattern is obviously selected a new pattern is created and placed.
edit: Also, currently, if you select a pattern in the track helper, thus activating it, that is the pattern that gets placed when you double tap, not a new pattern - unless you tap a different pattern on the timeline, then that pattern will be placed on double tap instead of the currently "active" pattern in the track helper. Not sure if that's the way it should work in the future or not. I could understand the thought "I activated a pattern, so no matter what I do or select on the timeline, the activated pattern should be placed when I double tap" - while I can also understand "I activated a pattern so I can hear it looping, but I should be able to select other working patterns on the timeline to then double tap and place those without having to "deactivate" the currently "active" pattern in the track helper."
Which was what the original bug report was, should have been typed in a simpler form like...
When no pattern is selected, double tap still repeats previously selected pattern.
The manual is unclear on this point and the way i stated it should work is the obvious way it should work, the fact that a pattern can be selected and instead it creates an empty pattern, bug.
@5pinlink @ronji agreed on all UX points. It should be just simple as you said 5pin. Now that I understand the actual flaw/issue I am documenting this in my own little black book. Lol. So thank you! This way we can all together push the experience to a more simplistic streamlined and intuitive experience.
I think this is broken. I was just double tapping with a pattern selected and getting a dupe of that pattern. Then I double tapped with nothing selected and got a new empty pattern. It showed up in both the timeline and the helper. And then it changed. I only get a dupe of the previously selected pattern no matter what I do. If I tap once on a pattern in the helper and then double tap in the timeline, the selected pattern appears but that track gets grayed out and muted and I have to tap Play Song to hear that track. Pretty strange.
Correct. It is flawed in design and you constantly have to readjust the takeover mode. Perception and user experience is hence broken, perceived as bug. It is a major issue to many users and I will report this to devs or others will.
In a nutshell, scene mode is the true culprit to this fiasco.
Its not really anything to do with scene mode, its just poor design, if a pattern is selected repeat, if it isnt, dont.
Scene mode cant be blamed.
Takeover then? Because when you select a pattern your automatically in Scene mode, and takeover mode per track in sequencer overrides the song track. Causing a constant need to hit stop, play etc on scene modes takeover behaviors. I was only blaming scene mode because it’s tied to pattern selection and the 3 behaviors available there (Play song, play pattern, stop track)
As @anickt was describing.
But you are right. The lack of independence here is the design flaw then I guess. We will get there someday.
Scene mode isnt tied to pattern selection, you are talking about the helper, the helper never even needs to come in to play here, if you select a pattern in the arranger and double tap, it repeats that pattern wherever you double tap, that is nothing to do with scenes or the helper, the helper just confuses it even more.