Annoying problem: I am using 8 banks and I want to load one of the internal sample instruments or one I saved. But to load ONE of those instruments, I have to load a WHOLE BANK. See where this is going? Separate instrument tracks are needed, maybe with a grouping option to shrink the mix view (for those who say crowding may be a problem). This needs to be looked at insightfully.
As far as multisampmed instruments go, they do technically contain only one pad, which can be copied to a bank. Not disagreeing with anyone here but there are workarounds.
@samu said:
I have no issues with the 'bank' concept but the 'extra' tracks would be welcomed...
Imagine you create a backing-beat of 1-4 bars and want to record a longer lead on top of that?
The 1-4 bar pattern could be repeated on the time-line and the 'extra track' would just control one pad in that bank with the lead sound on it.
Yah, I seem to always be running into this now. Having to merge 4 bars and then record on top of them but then feeling like I am painting myself into a corner not being able to flexibly edit the original four bars. Currently BM3 allows for overlapping patterns so technicaly it doesn't seem that far off to simply have them on seperate tracks. In other words...
@samu said:
I have no issues with the 'bank' concept but the 'extra' tracks would be welcomed...
Imagine you create a backing-beat of 1-4 bars and want to record a longer lead on top of that?
The 1-4 bar pattern could be repeated on the time-line and the 'extra track' would just control one pad in that bank with the lead sound on it.
Yah, I seem to always be running into this now. Having to merge 4 bars and then record on top of them but then feeling like I am painting myself into a corner not being able to flexibly edit the original four bars. Currently BM3 allows for overlapping patterns so technicaly it doesn't seem that far off to simply have them on seperate tracks. In other words...
+1
+1 definitely looking forward to more Banks or more instrument tracks on the main song timeline.
@LucidMusicInc said:
As far as multisampmed instruments go, they do technically contain only one pad, which can be copied to a bank. Not disagreeing with anyone here but there are workarounds.
How to load a multisampled instrument when using 8 banks? I'm interested in your workaround so I can finish the track.
1. Save one of your banks to the presets. Save your session.
2. Start a new session
3. Load your two banks
4. Copy the pad containing the multisampjed instrument to the other bank
5. Save the bank
6. Go back to your previous session
Second option
1. Export one of your banks to an audio track and load it to the song arranger
2. Swap banks
LOL...I refuse to put myself through that stress. Thanks for explaining tho...I have used the second option previously. I will wait patiently as BM3 matures.
I've grown up using logic and really gravitated to bm2. I love maschine but scenes aren't really my thing. Pads and a timeline keep it simple for me so I can chop a pattern in half if I have to and place it where I want. pretty much bm2 in a box. I never expected intua to veer away from the concept of bm2 but I can grow to like what bm3 is going just minimize the number of taps I got to do to go somewhere else in the app, and put a play stop button available when auditioning sounds it's messing with the flow. It would be awesome if there was a way to turn off/on for scenes and go linear like bm2. Bm3 sampler and banks are great but single instruments would be awesome especially when dropping in midi files and creating patterns. The big concept in bm2 I like it's the duplicate pattern and new pattern button. Still haven't figured out how to work that in bm3.
@stormywaterz said:
The big concept in bm2 I like it's the duplicate pattern and new pattern button. Still haven't figured out how to work that in bm3.
Tap the pattern bar at the top of screen to show current available patterns and the option to create a new one below. Tap the 3 dots to the right of a pattern to modify or duplicate.
@stormywaterz patters and scenes can be bypassed if you use the Play Song option when recording on the pads. That will record directly onto the timeline. ~~~~
Hopefully someone will make a thorough tutorial video re patterns and timeline/scenes. I'd do it but I suck at that kinda thing...Just seems like a few people are missing/requesting things that already exist but maybe aren't clear from the manual.
From where I see it if intua just add -
-More available session banks.
-Ability to switch/load bank presets without losing timeline/scenes midi.
-copy/drag midi/patterns between banks(tracks) in timeline.
-a well implemented 'transpose pattern' (and also 'transpose selected notes') function/buttons/window.
Everyone would be pretty happy? It's probably all doable and on its way...
Curious what's the difference between using one pad on a bank vs a 'freeform midi track'? I normally just manual sync hardware and never import midi so I'm probably missing something obvious to those that do have that stuff in their workflow.
A freeform track would use a pad, but it would not be tied to any one pad or bank, so if you delete the bank the MIDI is not connected to it.
It could be sent anywhere including external instruments.
@5pinlink cool, yeah if I understand correctly then that's the behaviour that ideally will eventually be implemented in banks/pads in general anyway so should solve a few problems for everyone if intua can do it..
The new beta adds more banks but they're currently nested extra 16 bank groups of 8 banks each with no way to rearrange tracks on the main timeline. I feel It's a poor fix. What's needed is the ability to add instruments on the main timeline to make BM3 a full hybrid linear/pattern DAW. If there were just straight added banks it might be different. I really have issues with keyboard/instruments being buried in the pad interface. Please breakout instruments from the pad interface.
I wouldn't have a problem if the song/pattern editing was as fluid as BM2. The copying, slicing, duplicating of midi patterns/audio tracks was awesome in the sequencer. I need that.
@stormywaterz said:
The big concept in bm2 I like it's the duplicate pattern and new pattern button. Still haven't figured out how to work that in bm3.
Tap the pattern bar at the top of screen to show current available patterns and the option to create a new one below. Tap the 3 dots to the right of a pattern to modify or duplicate.
This is exactly how I use BM3, I create patterns, then arrange them in song mode. As far as Banks go I dont see it as being limited to having 8 tracks, rather I view it as each banks having 128 tracks within itself. So typically Ill use a banks for all my drums, then a second bank to do mostly the meat of the song , instrument wise, ill load Audio unit instruments on tracks and that'll be where I build melodies, bass, synths etc....for the most part. If I decide I want to add a sample, say, a loop from another song, Ill add that to a new bank, taking advantage of the live stretch mode to make sure the sample loops works, time and pitch wise. Now say if I want to play along thru out the whole song,
Then Ill use a new bank for that...which would be my live performance for adlibing, solos, etc, or just to add drop fx, or what ever to dress the track up.
So at that point I still have 4 banks that arent used yet, and keep in mind, we have how ever many audio tracks our devices can handle, so I can always record a whole bank or individual tracks to audio. So while I can build a song from scratch, in the song mode timeline, like I would in BM2, Auria Pro or Cubasis, I dont take that approach in BM3, because I can already take that route in other DAWs and I think working with patterns in BM3 and then arranging them is really powerful as well as flexible.
As far as scenes go, I like that workflow too, but for me it kinda lends itself to live performances more so than me composing my songs, but again... we can also paste scenes into the song timeline. But I'd say , whatever workflow you go with, song mode, scenes, patterns, using the step editor to build track, knowing how ALL of these workflows work will be beneficial even if you dont use them all.
Would i be opposed to more individual tracks in the timeline for midi? No, but I honestly dont feel limited by the lack of them at this point. Again, each bank can have up to 128 tracks, and on top of that you have a fader and effects for each track. At the end of the day you have to go with what workflow works for you, but I would say dont write it off because it's not the same flow as BM2, it's another beast imo.
8 banks is way more than enough. Just a couple instrument tracks to load some synths would be awesome. I can deal with banks no problem just like to have some instrument tracks that I don't have to erase other pads in patterns just to solo out an instrument for a break or intro or something like that. I found the duplicate button so editing drums by adding to taking out is easy now.
8 banks is way more than enough for basic top 40 pop songs but fails for anything more developed. I understand some have no need for something beyond a old school groovebox pattern song arranger but BM3 can be a true hybrid linear/pattern DAW.
BeatMaker 3 new beta adds more banks but they're currently nested extra 16 bank groups of 8 banks each with no way to rearrange tracks on the main timeline. I feel It's a poor fix. What's needed is the ability to add instruments on the main timeline to make BM3 a full hybrid linear/pattern DAW. If there were just straight added banks it might be different. I really have issues with keyboard/instruments being buried in the pad interface. Please breakout instruments from the pad interface.
They should remove the sequencer entirely and just compile it as a drum sampler AU, not exactly music redefine but at least we could use it with a real sequencer.
They really don't want to release this on the desktop, 8 tracks will be laughed at.
Having instruments spread over pads in a bank is probably my favourite thing about BM3 so far... Layering synths with adjacent synth/sample pads via pad link is huge.. As is all the modulation and fx layering that this system offers in a super convenient way.
If people don't want multiple instruments per bank they can just use it like 'one bank per instrument...' Seems so simple to me that I keep thinking I must be missing something? Yeh, it still needs ironing out, but potentially it can be what people asking for, without the need for new/old kind of separate 'instrument tracks'. Soon as they add a 'keys' icon to the shortcuts bar you wouldn't need to visit the pads page after loading.
Is there a workflow reason I'm missing that makes separate instrument tracks better in functionality than a pad in a bank (after all the editing/saving problems/ommisions are ironed out)?
As long as there's an option to save/load individual 'pad+fx+modulations etc' as a pad/instrument, then you can save/load the basic traditional instrument patches like that? Not sure if this function exists already... Needs to be added at some point if not.
Banks system needs a bit of work but they're on a good path..
There are two ways to provide a complete and flexible approach to the bank/pad approach: more banks, and sub-tracks. For the 3.0.2 beta, we brought more banks; part of the code was there since the very beginning and we are testing the waters out. Now, I love the sub-track concept too but it is a more involved change.
However, these two changes were already debated/researched a couple of months ago. It's all about making the proper design choice with the updates we are planning.
Please give us some more time, 3.0.2 is still in beta and beta-testing is also part of the validation process for some new features we are trying out. We want to have good control of what the app is and is aiming to be.
Comments
Annoying problem: I am using 8 banks and I want to load one of the internal sample instruments or one I saved. But to load ONE of those instruments, I have to load a WHOLE BANK. See where this is going? Separate instrument tracks are needed, maybe with a grouping option to shrink the mix view (for those who say crowding may be a problem). This needs to be looked at insightfully.
Yah, I seem to always be running into this now. Having to merge 4 bars and then record on top of them but then feeling like I am painting myself into a corner not being able to flexibly edit the original four bars. Currently BM3 allows for overlapping patterns so technicaly it doesn't seem that far off to simply have them on seperate tracks. In other words...
+1
+1 definitely looking forward to more Banks or more instrument tracks on the main song timeline.
How to load a multisampled instrument when using 8 banks? I'm interested in your workaround so I can finish the track.
1. Save one of your banks to the presets. Save your session.
2. Start a new session
3. Load your two banks
4. Copy the pad containing the multisampjed instrument to the other bank
5. Save the bank
6. Go back to your previous session
Second option
1. Export one of your banks to an audio track and load it to the song arranger
2. Swap banks
LOL...I refuse to put myself through that stress. Thanks for explaining tho...I have used the second option previously. I will wait patiently as BM3 matures.
I've grown up using logic and really gravitated to bm2. I love maschine but scenes aren't really my thing. Pads and a timeline keep it simple for me so I can chop a pattern in half if I have to and place it where I want. pretty much bm2 in a box. I never expected intua to veer away from the concept of bm2 but I can grow to like what bm3 is going just minimize the number of taps I got to do to go somewhere else in the app, and put a play stop button available when auditioning sounds it's messing with the flow. It would be awesome if there was a way to turn off/on for scenes and go linear like bm2. Bm3 sampler and banks are great but single instruments would be awesome especially when dropping in midi files and creating patterns. The big concept in bm2 I like it's the duplicate pattern and new pattern button. Still haven't figured out how to work that in bm3.
Tap the pattern bar at the top of screen to show current available patterns and the option to create a new one below. Tap the 3 dots to the right of a pattern to modify or duplicate.
@stormywaterz patters and scenes can be bypassed if you use the Play Song option when recording on the pads. That will record directly onto the timeline. ~~~~
Wow!
Totally missed this thread, I'll have to read through it later..
So much to do...
King
.
From where I see it if intua just add -
-More available session banks.
-Ability to switch/load bank presets without losing timeline/scenes midi.
-copy/drag midi/patterns between banks(tracks) in timeline.
-a well implemented 'transpose pattern' (and also 'transpose selected notes') function/buttons/window.
Everyone would be pretty happy? It's probably all doable and on its way...
It could be sent anywhere including external instruments.
Right, I've gone through this thread, had to scan some of it, but I get the gist.
"17, Track layers/group. Again we have this in BM2, we can add '+' a sub track.
Vincent: We've planned this also"
King
.
Also:
"28, Mute for patterns in song view. Individual Pattern mutes.
Vincent: Pretty advanced but why not (maybe not needed if we put back multiple tracks per Bank)"
King
.
This is exactly how I use BM3, I create patterns, then arrange them in song mode. As far as Banks go I dont see it as being limited to having 8 tracks, rather I view it as each banks having 128 tracks within itself. So typically Ill use a banks for all my drums, then a second bank to do mostly the meat of the song , instrument wise, ill load Audio unit instruments on tracks and that'll be where I build melodies, bass, synths etc....for the most part. If I decide I want to add a sample, say, a loop from another song, Ill add that to a new bank, taking advantage of the live stretch mode to make sure the sample loops works, time and pitch wise. Now say if I want to play along thru out the whole song,
Then Ill use a new bank for that...which would be my live performance for adlibing, solos, etc, or just to add drop fx, or what ever to dress the track up.
So at that point I still have 4 banks that arent used yet, and keep in mind, we have how ever many audio tracks our devices can handle, so I can always record a whole bank or individual tracks to audio. So while I can build a song from scratch, in the song mode timeline, like I would in BM2, Auria Pro or Cubasis, I dont take that approach in BM3, because I can already take that route in other DAWs and I think working with patterns in BM3 and then arranging them is really powerful as well as flexible.
As far as scenes go, I like that workflow too, but for me it kinda lends itself to live performances more so than me composing my songs, but again... we can also paste scenes into the song timeline. But I'd say , whatever workflow you go with, song mode, scenes, patterns, using the step editor to build track, knowing how ALL of these workflows work will be beneficial even if you dont use them all.
Would i be opposed to more individual tracks in the timeline for midi? No, but I honestly dont feel limited by the lack of them at this point. Again, each bank can have up to 128 tracks, and on top of that you have a fader and effects for each track. At the end of the day you have to go with what workflow works for you, but I would say dont write it off because it's not the same flow as BM2, it's another beast imo.
They should remove the sequencer entirely and just compile it as a drum sampler AU, not exactly music redefine but at least we could use it with a real sequencer.
They really don't want to release this on the desktop, 8 tracks will be laughed at.
If people don't want multiple instruments per bank they can just use it like 'one bank per instrument...' Seems so simple to me that I keep thinking I must be missing something? Yeh, it still needs ironing out, but potentially it can be what people asking for, without the need for new/old kind of separate 'instrument tracks'. Soon as they add a 'keys' icon to the shortcuts bar you wouldn't need to visit the pads page after loading.
Is there a workflow reason I'm missing that makes separate instrument tracks better in functionality than a pad in a bank (after all the editing/saving problems/ommisions are ironed out)?
As long as there's an option to save/load individual 'pad+fx+modulations etc' as a pad/instrument, then you can save/load the basic traditional instrument patches like that? Not sure if this function exists already... Needs to be added at some point if not.
Banks system needs a bit of work but they're on a good path..
Hey everyone, time for some clarifications!
There are two ways to provide a complete and flexible approach to the bank/pad approach: more banks, and sub-tracks. For the 3.0.2 beta, we brought more banks; part of the code was there since the very beginning and we are testing the waters out. Now, I love the sub-track concept too but it is a more involved change.
However, these two changes were already debated/researched a couple of months ago. It's all about making the proper design choice with the updates we are planning.
Please give us some more time, 3.0.2 is still in beta and beta-testing is also part of the validation process for some new features we are trying out. We want to have good control of what the app is and is aiming to be.
Cheers,
Mathieu.