BM3 vs Modstep MIDI sequencing
What am i missing here ?
A lot of people are proclaiming Modstep as a much better MIDI sequencer than BM3, somebody clue me in here please, Modstep has no arranger, it is just a pattern triggering app, unless you count the 1 dimensional pattern list.
What am i missing ?
I am assuming they mean the piano roll/step editor is better, if that is the case, lest make a comprehensive list of what needs to be better in BM3s piano roll/step editor.
Comments
Re being better than BM3 for midi sequencing maybe they mean more solid with external hardware? I've never used ipad to sequence hardware tho so I couldn't really comment on either of them in that respect...
Modstep is a clusterf**k in terms of UI/X design, it is one of the biggest messes on iPad, so i think we should ignore that and just concentrate on feature set.
But really we'd need more info about what people are referring to when they're saying modstep is better?
-MIDI learning every individual MIDI clip (so I can have lots of different hardware controller banks to trigger different parts of one big project).
-Set a scene to play a set number of times then go to the next one (it's actually very quick to throw song structures together with this).
-Tempo changes on scenes (allowing for MIDI mapped tempo changes or chained strings of scenes which can be malleable in real time or act as a tempo track).
-I find that it's much easier to configure MIDI (BM3 has a lot of scope but I still often feel that I'm fighting it to achieve my goal).
-Step sequencer? (Not sure, I don't really use it!).
I mainly really used BM3 for 'utility' in performance (tempo changes, automation, adjusting and 'holding' fine tuning of multiple instruments) and quite rarely sequenced note information in it.
I don't run it in my current live rig (and do run BM3) but it definitely offers extra functionality that can supplement BM3s own performance abilities. For live tempo change on iOS I don't see any other options.
I don't care about UX/UI in general and am only concerned about what functionally is available (and more importantly accessible) in a performance setting. I'd consider both BM3 and Modstep to be throughly in the 'background app' category (although Modstep is marginally more favourable to trigger clip from the screen) and I can't imagine comfortably using any functionality of either that I can't control from hardware.
But that is all performance features no ?
BM3 blatantly has a better sequencer (it has an arranger)
So am i right in thinking that sequencer on IOS generaly means performance features(Modsteps clip triggering is way better, but thats all)
@5pinlink
i don't have modstep but i'm thinking about it. do you actually play a keyboard etc "live"? or do you tap notes in on screen? notes played in "live" are quantised to 16ths. maybe i've got it setup wrong? who would be happy losing that level of nuance to their actual playing? is moving midi around outside of a pattern for arrangements possible in bm3? can't figure that one. best one-it is not possible to mute midi sequences, which is a basic feature in every daw's sequencer and which i'd imagine you can do with ms.
like some have suggested at ab, using the 2 together might make for a good combo, just like using au's with bm3.
@canister
Modstep has no arranger, you create parts and them trigger them either on screen or via MIDI.
To me that is not a sequencer.
Has this 16th note thing been reported as a bug, i dont remember seeing it.
I have only been using BM3 handheld, i will hook it up to a keyboard at some point, but if putting the pattern in free mode (default is auto or 16th i dont remember) should not only record 16ths, that has to be a bug.
That only happens when quantise is ON...(ie. shorter than quantise value notes get extended to quantise value).
If quantise is OFF there are no issues with end-note quantise.
Feels like a bug? I've not ran in to the same behaviour in any other daw sequencer before.
From what I know there will be an option to disable end-note quantise at some point in time...
I've mentioned this multiple times during my communication with @mathieugarcia
yeah, the 16th note thing's been discussed.
i'd really like a lord of the rings thing-one app to rule them all. don't want to spend mo money and sit and figure stuff out. i just like playing. coming from reaper and then cubasis (never used them that much), bm3 sequencer's got my head boxed. suppose i'm after the spontaneity of an acoustic which i can just pick up and play. that isn't going to happen with apps+hardware.
Scene view is definitely in need of major tweaking.
Yes but again, with triggering ie performance oriented, i would not call Modsteps pattern list quick or easy compared to BM3s arranger.
Again i have to ask, does sequencer on IOS generally mean triggering performances manually ?
This may be why i am getting vonfused, because i come from the desktop world where a pattern clip triggering app is not a sequencer unless it has an arranger.
1. Processing my performance instrument live with a rig small enough to fit in a Ryanair size carry on.
2. Also be able to fit enough mics and cables in my pack to be able to track on the road at studio quality using that gear.
Back in those early days I just used to run DM1 into Filtatron on one AB channel and FLUX:FX on another. If I was tracking I'd just boot up Presonus Capture. 'Legacy' of this is that most of what I do is firstly considering live application. Most of what I'm doing with BM3 is building sampler instruments and hosting things to be performed with and modulated in real time, the timeline is an afterthought. In Modstep it was the same - barely a note hosted, just 'functional' performance stuff.
These days I'm trying to focus much more on a production based workflow - BM3 is perfect for me and I prefer its arranger and piano roll functionality to anything else existing on iOS. Perfect balance of 'performative' interaction and technical depth to keep it feeling quick and creative while also being fully featured. I especially love the 'tap once to select, tap again to interact' behavior of the timeline layers - very quick and none of the endless accidental deleting and moving notes that most other iOS piano rolls suffer from.
By the way:
I actually have a picture from the first concert I played with that setup. This was in Istanbul 10 days after I received the equipment to put that rig together! (we were in Istanbul for two weeks and I was figuring it out on the hoof until I got it all to work properly .. thankfully by this gig it was rockin'!)
So as far as i can tell, people preferring Modsteps sequencing are talking completely about the scene/pattern triggering (Which i personally think is a very weak part of BM3 at the moment)
But the actually piano roll/step editor/arranger is pretty much in place and working as wanted in BM3 ?
(Tweaks aside obviously, there are some brilliant FR for sequencing in the FR forum)
No it's not just that. Modstep's step sequencer is excellent for composing and highly playable when you learn it. The experience in BM3 doesn't come close in that way for me. It's has a 256 step sequencer which you can add chords, copy/clone steps, select active steps and rearrange any of the 16 blocks of 16 steps on the fly whilst you are jamming away and also modulating bits. I really like it for composing parts. Also the clip view has a straightforward way of arranging scenes and jamming with your parts and you can also easily improvise here too.. Good for getting a structure and then using the parts elsewhere. I don't yet know all the arranging bit in BM3 as well as MS to compare as I took a bit of a break from BM3 whilst it rolls out more updates. But I look forward to more progress.
The piano roll in BM3 is just ok for me, not as fluid to use as Modstep. There's a drum pattern sequencer in Modstep. There's not one winner here they are both different. But if I was just using midi I would choose Modstep over BM3. However I'm sure BM3 will improve as well in these areas and obviously there's lots in BM3 that isn't in MS. That's why I like having both.
Everything you said can be done in BM3, I know both apps but i'm trying to work out why Modstep is supposedly better for sequencing.
So far it is clip triggering, which i agree with.
I still think the piano roll is a little slicker personally in Modstep compared to v3.0.2 of BM3, but that is just because it has been around longer/i am more used to.
Unless I've completely missed it, BM3 has no step sequencer and Modstep has the most advanced one on iOS. So thats mainly why I prefer sequencing directly in MS to BM3.
Modstep's colour wheel is awesome. Important shit for creative people! I want my instruments to be coloured accurately!
BM3s native mode in patterns is a step sequencer, which takes most of its design inspiration from Maschine desktop, which is known as one of the best if not the best step sequencer around.
And i would honestly say that while i do still prefer a lot of the tools available in Modsteps piano roll like folding and scales and such, BM3s piano roll is still easier to edit in and the step sequencer is way more usable here for me personally in BM3, but i do come from the desktop, so my idea of a great step sequencer is the immediacy of Maschine desktop, which BM3 has nailed.
I am guessing here that you mean a step sequencer for melodies and not drums/hits ?
Again i see no need for this in something that has a piano roll, but i am willing to be schooled.
Yes I mean a step sequencer for melodies and chords, not a piano roll or especially for drum hits. For me it's a different way of working and better for composing, well at least many people prefer it. Piano rolls are fine but not always the best way to work but they are useful too of course, especially for recording stuff in and then editing. I don't regard the piano roll in BM3 as a step sequencer even though you can input notes manually. Step sequencers are like instruments themselves and you will come up with different results in all of them depending on the way they are designed and their constraints. Take Midsteps or Xynthesisr or Thesys or Modstep, all have very different ideas on step sequencing and you'll produce different results in each. I love how the design influences the results.
No app can be the best at everything though. I think when Midi out for AU comes soon it's going to be great so you can load up AU midi sequencers into apps like BM3 and record to the piano roll, or even just the audio, and then take it from there etc.
I'm hoping Modstep, Thesys and the others will get AU extensions when this happens at some point, although I'm sure it's a long way in the future.....
BM3 has both step sequencer and piano roll, when you first open a pattern it is a step sequencer, you then press the keyboard upper right to enter the piano roll for that pad.
I think there is a certain amount of lost terminology here, BM3 has a step sequencer, saying it does not is simply a misunderstanding, however it's step sequencer is the same as Maschines step sequencer and is biased heavily towards drums/hits, but it is still a step sequencer.
I agree entirely that a melody/chord step sequencer is good fun, but with MIDI out coming in AU for IOS 11, I would rather have BM3 support that.
However, MIDI Loopback in BM3 would actually negate this too, you could set up one bank with its step sequencer to send MIDI to a single pad of another bank, this would give you the full 128 note MIDI range, it would take some initial set up, but once set up you would have your template, this would be a perfectly working Chord/Melody step sequencer.
So i would also prefer that to an extra step sequencer just for melodies/chords.
That's basically what I'm getting at too, in that there's no point in trying to compete with all the other melody step sequencers eg Modstep etc and just enable the fullest and best support for midi so you can work with both.
Upcoming AUv3 midi out will be great for AU hosts like BM3 and AUM
I just like working with different types of sequencers too, it's just lots of fun
In fact I really want AB3 midi in for BM3 and that's still probably not happening for a while.
1. Only show the Scale in the Pattern view of what my Pad is set to...or let us toggle between Chromatic and what we Set.
2. Give us a Random/ProbabilityFX to add variety to our notes. I want Abletons Random device locked to my set Scale in BM3.
3. Allow us to change speed of playback on a per sequence basis so we can create interesting polyrhythms.
4. I know I said a few...but it would be awesome to take advantage of Push2 going open source by making it work like a mad ColdCut Chemist with BM3.
The great thing about BM3 is that we're close...the Event Horizon is within range. Keep up the amazing work Team.
Big +1 for tempo division/multiplier per pattern too.
And I have a (barely used...) Push2 so that related request sounds interesting too!