@RUSTiK Pretty new to ios and never heard of genome. Just checked a video out. Some nice touches. The ability to use onscreen keyboard + piano roll view at same time looks super useful for quick workflow (at 3.37 in this vid - )
I never could take to Genome...and the fact that it hasn't been updated in almost a year says a lot about it as well...we're best off with Beatmaker 3 and ModStep for our sequencing needs...until Gadget gets Midi Out....
Another thing which makes me pick up Modstep over BM3 at the moment is the support for Audiobus 3. BM3 needs AB3 midi input and output. Modstep has good compatibility. The first 8 tracks have ab3 midi input and output ports which make it really easy to send midi in or out of MS tracks and take advantage of AB3 midi routing and filters. Hope BM3 gets this kind of support too.
Honestly I don't find myself needing AB since BM3 does a great job with AU hosting.
There are a few things which are buggy which seem to be getting fixed with each update...so I am hopeful.
Get Midi routing to work as it should...
Fix issues with zooming in Song and Pattern views...
Get Correct Scales to show up in Pattern and piano keys views...
Get some nice MIDI type FX for randomizing notes...
...and we will have a gold standard and solid app...
Beatmaker 3 is so close to replacing our Maschines and MPCLive hardware it's not even funny...
Intua can do it. BM3 is proof that it is possible.
There's no negative to adding AB3 support. It would be beneficial to BM3 and open up the possibilities with different workflows without loads of development time, it's beneficial to every app because core midi is a pain on iOS. Getting live midi in and out of BM3 is a pain. So much so that it's putting me off using it for now. I like using a multi app modular workflow to take advantage of different unique tools. It would make it much easier working with hardware too.
BM3 has great potential but the best apps are the most easy to connect other apps with, take AUM for example which also has great AB3 support.
@lukesleepwalker said:
I have come around to the utility of AB3 and use it regularly. But I'm not sure it would solve the issues I have with MIDI routing inside of BM3.
Using external sequencers would certainly be a lot more fun to use if BM3 had an AB3 midi port for each bank. Routing to desktop and external gear out of BM3 would be a lot easier too
I hope BM3 becomes my one stop shop. It would certainly improve my creative flow to not have to mess with MIDI and apps and whatnot. But the other night I set up a Bluetooth MIDI controller I have laying around and set up the pads via focus actions. Set up a bank with samples in the pads, set the midi routing, etc. I play the pads and on some I get just the sample I set but on others I get the sample I set plus the chromatic pitched version of the first pad. I check enable keys mode and a couple of other obvious settings to check. All good. And I was all ready to troubleshoot and figure out why some pads worked right and others didn't and realized that I was doing more troubleshooting than music making. I shut down BM3 and went back to my old apps that work reliably. I'll be back because the app has so much progress, but it's just a drag at times right now...
I know of no app on IOS that actually works how any human would actually want it to.
Hopefully the developers at Intua can work towards that.
But this is a Modstep thread, so lets just bring this back to earth here a little, 1 update a year if we are lucky and a mixer with no pan/balance.
I know which developers i wont be trusting to deliver a usable product any time soon haha.
I'm feeling the opposite is probably true, no app on iOS can be the ultimate one stop shop, the platform doesn't work for it. All the DAWs are good in different ways but none are the best at everything. I'm no longer waiting for one app to solve my workflow dreams because it won't happen (for me at least). I like designing my own workflow. BM3 has great features but I won't want to work exclusively with any one app so connectivity is key.
But that's why I really like Modstep, I don't need it to be the best host, I never use it that way, I use AUM+AB3 to host or just AUM. Works great, no issues. I can see why they put hosting in as a selling point for people with no other hosting apps and it is useful for the built in sampler but I always use IAA audio out hosted in AUM. Modstep midi out has always been rock solid because at heart it's a midi sequencer, not a host.
The handheld platform with its limited size form factor is designed specifically for single application use.
iPad and IOS in general is always going to have a restricted workflow no matter what you do, a single application negates those issues much more than a lot of apps trying to do something the platform was never really designed for.
Lets be clear here, desktops are designed from the get go to multi task and have this interact with that, and what happens, people run one DAW at a time, things like Ableton Link and Rewire are near enough ignored niche features, why ? because people just want a reliable stable platform to create on.
Reliability will always be easier to achieve with a single application, AUs are getting more reliable on IOS, but i personally would never rely on IAA/Audiobus/AUM/MS/BM3 all wired together for anything in front of a client or live.
Not sure what you mean about Ableton Link being ignored. I'm using it everyday on iPad and use it daily with Ableton Live connected to my iPads along with loads of other people I'm sure. I'm connecting apps everyday, getting stuff done and having a blast using AB3 and AUM. It's only the DAW workflow on IOS I have a problem with because the devices are too small, even the pros, for efficient DAW workflow imo. I still like using them on iOS for bits and pieces though but would never personally rely on one for beginning to end. My preferred workflow is iOS + hardware to desktop. Unless I'm away from a computer for a while, that's when they become very useful. If we are talking about in front of a client, I would never use iOS at all personally, only as a controller or instrument attached to desktop, well unless I'm showing a sketch or a video or something.
But back on topic, I'm sure Modstep will get more development as well, I'm hoping more follow actions, pretty sure undo is in the works too.
@5pinlink "BM3 is the first app that i would happily show a client as a viable home platform"..
Feels maybe bit premature to think of it as a pro daw?
BM3 got me looking at ios again because of the huge potential the BM3 OS architecture has for performance/daw hybrid. Potentially a kind of Swiss army knife for performance that has combined shades of mpc live/op1/Elektron. Depending on whether intua decide to expand in those directions.
As a mobile/desktop daw it's super promising too but it's got a long way to go before i'd consider it pro studio daw material.
Maybe OK for electronic sequenced stuff but it would be an absolute nightmare to try and record/mix a live band in BM3 atm. No audio or midi take lanes/comping. No fx chains. Slim pickings for pro quality plugins compared to vst. Slightly clunky UI for general DAW navigation. No Warp markers/audio Quantise. Etc etc.. And generally missing lots of little touches/features that mature daws have sewn in over time.
There are so many capable daws out there already tho that that side of BM3 doesn't really interest/concern me too much. I just see it as kind of a bonus that it's a super capable scratch pad whilst being a killer performance sampler and also an AU host.
Imo it's the performance/creative aspect that has the potential to really set it apart and subsequently make it an attractive option to replace existing Daws (after the Daw side of bm3 is brought up to spec) due to the potential convenience of total intergration between shows/portable scratchpad/pro studio scenarios. Could make a lot of musicians lives a lot more streamlined/less cluttered/cheaper etc..
For now I'd recommend clients use something more streamlined/mature/bug-free for pre-prod. But BM3s almost definitely going to be a solid contender after a few updates
Sounds like things didn't go too great for you with a past studio experience? Sorry to hear that (genuinely!).
There are far worse ways to earn $ tho But plenty of better ones too I guess..
Do you run a studio for a living ?
Because i don't know anybody who has run an independant studio in the last ten years eho thinks it is a good way to earn a living, in the UK at least you just about cover rent, buying gear is out of your own pocket.
I gave up my studio space a couple years back after my 3rd child was born and now just do freelance in hired rooms etc. It's working out pretty well so far tho
Edit - I should have said I'm not pulling a full time wage from it tho. Just doing it often enough to pay some bills and buy some gear
Some friends are still running studios full time tho and seem to be doing OK? This is in Brighton area. Maybe it's a regional thing... Like I'd imagine London is over-saturated with studios and a tough place to get regular work.
Edit 2 - maybe switch the studio chat posts to a new thread? Might be interesting to hear from other BM3 users about their studios and feelings on that side of the industry without derailing
@5pinlink after grabbing Moog Model 15 I'm starting to look at modstep again now too. Naively figured midi cc knobs for other apps/external hardware was a given Genuinely surprised to not find them when I went looking.
It's a massive 'pro' for Modstep for my current sequencing requirements. Hopefully it gets added to BM3 at some point. BM3 is a killer sampler, best one out there by far imo, but the sequencer/daw side of it increasingly appears to be in its enfancy the more I try to use it for that stuff. I'm sure they'll nail it all after some updates tho.
i got modstep a few days ago. the sequencer seems pretty user friendly to me. the only thing i'm a bit puzzled about is how to set the scaling on the trigger pads. i need to have a proper squizz at that tonight. love the pads and roll with velocity in bm3 tho.
i have to use midi-link app to offset the clock to my hardware sequencer bcos i don't think ms has that feature.
if you don't host yr apps in ms (aum or ab3 etc) then the mute cuts the midi being sent, leaving those lovely fx tails and env releases intact. this is the only reason for me switching from bm3 to ms
Comments
+1 for probability and random filters. Midi fx AUs will be possible soon so adding support for that will make things interesting too.
No.
Genome gives me NO issues.
Driving ios, hardware, and wifi.
No issues ever really. This is going on 4 years and not a problem.
I think by far the smartest of any MIDI sequencer.
I never could take to Genome...and the fact that it hasn't been updated in almost a year says a lot about it as well...we're best off with Beatmaker 3 and ModStep for our sequencing needs...until Gadget gets Midi Out....
Another thing which makes me pick up Modstep over BM3 at the moment is the support for Audiobus 3. BM3 needs AB3 midi input and output. Modstep has good compatibility. The first 8 tracks have ab3 midi input and output ports which make it really easy to send midi in or out of MS tracks and take advantage of AB3 midi routing and filters. Hope BM3 gets this kind of support too.
Personally i would rather have MIDI routing and tools built in to BM3 than have to use AB3.
Audiobus was great before AU, but a good AU host should not need to use Audiobus at all.
There are a few things which are buggy which seem to be getting fixed with each update...so I am hopeful.
Get Midi routing to work as it should...
Fix issues with zooming in Song and Pattern views...
Get Correct Scales to show up in Pattern and piano keys views...
Get some nice MIDI type FX for randomizing notes...
...and we will have a gold standard and solid app...
Beatmaker 3 is so close to replacing our Maschines and MPCLive hardware it's not even funny...
Intua can do it. BM3 is proof that it is possible.
There's no negative to adding AB3 support. It would be beneficial to BM3 and open up the possibilities with different workflows without loads of development time, it's beneficial to every app because core midi is a pain on iOS. Getting live midi in and out of BM3 is a pain. So much so that it's putting me off using it for now. I like using a multi app modular workflow to take advantage of different unique tools. It would make it much easier working with hardware too.
BM3 has great potential but the best apps are the most easy to connect other apps with, take AUM for example which also has great AB3 support.
Using external sequencers would certainly be a lot more fun to use if BM3 had an AB3 midi port for each bank. Routing to desktop and external gear out of BM3 would be a lot easier too
I would rather have better MIDI in BM3, multi app set ups are what gives iPad its poor reputation of being a stable enough platform for heavy use.
I know of no app on IOS that actually works how any human would actually want it to.
Hopefully the developers at Intua can work towards that.
But this is a Modstep thread, so lets just bring this back to earth here a little, 1 update a year if we are lucky and a mixer with no pan/balance.
I know which developers i wont be trusting to deliver a usable product any time soon haha.
I'm feeling the opposite is probably true, no app on iOS can be the ultimate one stop shop, the platform doesn't work for it. All the DAWs are good in different ways but none are the best at everything. I'm no longer waiting for one app to solve my workflow dreams because it won't happen (for me at least). I like designing my own workflow. BM3 has great features but I won't want to work exclusively with any one app so connectivity is key.
But that's why I really like Modstep, I don't need it to be the best host, I never use it that way, I use AUM+AB3 to host or just AUM. Works great, no issues. I can see why they put hosting in as a selling point for people with no other hosting apps and it is useful for the built in sampler but I always use IAA audio out hosted in AUM. Modstep midi out has always been rock solid because at heart it's a midi sequencer, not a host.
The handheld platform with its limited size form factor is designed specifically for single application use.
iPad and IOS in general is always going to have a restricted workflow no matter what you do, a single application negates those issues much more than a lot of apps trying to do something the platform was never really designed for.
Lets be clear here, desktops are designed from the get go to multi task and have this interact with that, and what happens, people run one DAW at a time, things like Ableton Link and Rewire are near enough ignored niche features, why ? because people just want a reliable stable platform to create on.
Reliability will always be easier to achieve with a single application, AUs are getting more reliable on IOS, but i personally would never rely on IAA/Audiobus/AUM/MS/BM3 all wired together for anything in front of a client or live.
Not sure what you mean about Ableton Link being ignored. I'm using it everyday on iPad and use it daily with Ableton Live connected to my iPads along with loads of other people I'm sure. I'm connecting apps everyday, getting stuff done and having a blast using AB3 and AUM. It's only the DAW workflow on IOS I have a problem with because the devices are too small, even the pros, for efficient DAW workflow imo. I still like using them on iOS for bits and pieces though but would never personally rely on one for beginning to end. My preferred workflow is iOS + hardware to desktop. Unless I'm away from a computer for a while, that's when they become very useful. If we are talking about in front of a client, I would never use iOS at all personally, only as a controller or instrument attached to desktop, well unless I'm showing a sketch or a video or something.
But back on topic, I'm sure Modstep will get more development as well, I'm hoping more follow actions, pretty sure undo is in the works too.
Sorry, I always still talk from the point of view of a commercial studio, Ableton Link is largely ignored there, so is IOS.
BM3 is the first app that i would happily show a client as a viable home platform.
Feels maybe bit premature to think of it as a pro daw?
BM3 got me looking at ios again because of the huge potential the BM3 OS architecture has for performance/daw hybrid. Potentially a kind of Swiss army knife for performance that has combined shades of mpc live/op1/Elektron. Depending on whether intua decide to expand in those directions.
As a mobile/desktop daw it's super promising too but it's got a long way to go before i'd consider it pro studio daw material.
Maybe OK for electronic sequenced stuff but it would be an absolute nightmare to try and record/mix a live band in BM3 atm. No audio or midi take lanes/comping. No fx chains. Slim pickings for pro quality plugins compared to vst. Slightly clunky UI for general DAW navigation. No Warp markers/audio Quantise. Etc etc.. And generally missing lots of little touches/features that mature daws have sewn in over time.
There are so many capable daws out there already tho that that side of BM3 doesn't really interest/concern me too much. I just see it as kind of a bonus that it's a super capable scratch pad whilst being a killer performance sampler and also an AU host.
Imo it's the performance/creative aspect that has the potential to really set it apart and subsequently make it an attractive option to replace existing Daws (after the Daw side of bm3 is brought up to spec) due to the potential convenience of total intergration between shows/portable scratchpad/pro studio scenarios. Could make a lot of musicians lives a lot more streamlined/less cluttered/cheaper etc..
Not sure i said it was a pro or mature DAW ?
IE something to use at home for pre production before coming to the studio.
Ahhh well i defer to you on that one, I happily don't have studio clientel anymore.
There are far worse ways to earn $ tho
Do you run a studio for a living ?
Because i don't know anybody who has run an independant studio in the last ten years eho thinks it is a good way to earn a living, in the UK at least you just about cover rent, buying gear is out of your own pocket.
Edit - I should have said I'm not pulling a full time wage from it tho. Just doing it often enough to pay some bills and buy some gear
Some friends are still running studios full time tho and seem to be doing OK? This is in Brighton area. Maybe it's a regional thing... Like I'd imagine London is over-saturated with studios and a tough place to get regular work.
Edit 2 - maybe switch the studio chat posts to a new thread? Might be interesting to hear from other BM3 users about their studios and feelings on that side of the industry without derailing
I think this thread has run its course anyway
It's a massive 'pro' for Modstep for my current sequencing requirements. Hopefully it gets added to BM3 at some point. BM3 is a killer sampler, best one out there by far imo, but the sequencer/daw side of it increasingly appears to be in its enfancy the more I try to use it for that stuff. I'm sure they'll nail it all after some updates tho.
i got modstep a few days ago. the sequencer seems pretty user friendly to me. the only thing i'm a bit puzzled about is how to set the scaling on the trigger pads. i need to have a proper squizz at that tonight. love the pads and roll with velocity in bm3 tho.
i have to use midi-link app to offset the clock to my hardware sequencer bcos i don't think ms has that feature.
if you don't host yr apps in ms (aum or ab3 etc) then the mute cuts the midi being sent, leaving those lovely fx tails and env releases intact. this is the only reason for me switching from bm3 to ms