FYI i disagree with him a little, things like EXT/Reaktor/Synthedit/Mux/Reaper etc have been going very strong for years, and they are the embodiment of the modular approach he talks of but on the desktop, so i cant agree IOS is creating its own flavour to be honest.
I think it "seems" to be embraced more because there are more noodlers on IOS/Mobile platforms that just want to noodle about and come up with something, rather then put time in to what some see as "the technical side" ie working in a DAW.
But even those noodlers favourite questions are "How do i render all the tracks in xyz noodle, so i can load them in to xyz DAW"
Personally i think that the embracement of the noodle is nothing more than the first steps of the less technical minded/noodler in to DAW space.
It is similar to the old guitarist timeline....
Guitar
Looper
Multitrack
DAW
Boring geek who posts about EQ frequencies on every audio forum.
Yep.. have to say I agree with you @5pinlink (sorry @brambos) - though its great to see developers sharing their views and insights.
Just like in every social and special interest group, there are the hardcore — and the noodlers. Some noodlers progress to the hardcore; others forever remain noodling.
AUM seems great for jamming (and possibly live performances) but you will always need DAW for creating proper tracks.
Perhaps you should write an article? I do keep gettng this feeling we are witnessing the birth of something special here in the world of iOS DAWs, AUv3's and BM3.
It just feels like Windows 3.11 in to 95 with the direct X plugins, lots of noodling apps and very little in the way of usable DAWs etc.
All the noodling apps eventually disappeared and the DAWs went from strength to strength, then noodling became a plugin in the DAW, then the DAWs designed for noodling started to happen, obviously it ends up at the completely modular DAW (Reaper) that takes it to the next level.
The big big difference is the IOS eco system, while noodling apps that are no longer developed on the desktop can still be used and will mostly still work (windows obviously) on IOS that simply isnt the case, old apps fall to unuse rapidly if they arent maintained.
What will be interesting to watch and may point towards @brambos thoughts a bit more, is how vintage iPads become, nobody is rushing out to buy an old win 95 box to run Rubber Duck or Hammerhead (see what i did there lol) but older iPads may well become collectible for the reason of running unobtanium.
The thing I love about IOS (right now, at least) is that I get close to 90% of the desktop experience, in my pocket, for about 10% of the price.
If I had to put time aside at home (or in a studio) to practice my hobby... it just wouldn't happen as much, realistically.
It's a bit like a sketchbook and pencil for an artist, versus a massive canvas and easel with oil paints.
Fortunately (for me), the fact that many iOS musicians are noodlers helps to keep app prices artificially low, and there are still some amzingly powerful apps being released... just like Synthmaster One last week. If the iOS scene matured we would see many more 'serious' tools being ported and released, but the prices would also leap considerably.
Completely agree with @5pinlink about the noodlers and that a daw is fundamental for anything serious. Feel that his article misses this point and detracts from the great daws that are being created for iOS like bm3 and cubasis.
Don’t agree @tk32 re low costs of iOS. When you are add up all the £10 - £25 pounds for synths (which are usually desktop cut downs) and fx and daws that are needed to mirror the desktop experience you are already looking at several hundred which is desktop equivalent prices. And many spend way more than that.
@tk32 said:
I paid £15 for BM3 back in July 2017, and just recently £15 for Synthmaster One.
Aside from the fact my ipad wasn't cheap, I still feel like I've robbed somebody here.
But yeah, I've probably spent a few hundred on DAWs and plugins altogether. No regrets.
No regrets at all I agree. I think it feels like they are so cheap because they are separately, but when you do add all the ‘daw components’ together that you need, it does add up. But yes bm3 is worth SO much more even than £40.
And ironically, I actually often feel more creative with iOS than on a desktop. J never thought I’d be saying that. But what with all the cool little fx apps you can buy they almost for me add so much more to my compositions. Things like perforator, grind, cool delays etc etc
If I include all the IAA synths i've purchased in the last 4 years, it's hard to believe what I've managed to get for my money.
I have a Korg M1, Moog Model D, Moog Model 15, Moog Mini, Arp Odyssey, Oberheim SEM, Korg Prophet, EMS VCS3, Korg Polysix, Korg Mono/Poly. Not to mention the many awesome modern digital synths like Poison, Sunrizer, Zeeon, Animoog, Thor, and of course Synthmaster One.
Unfortunately many of them I don't use anymore because they aren't AUv3 (yet!)
@tk32 said:
If I include all the IAA synths i've purchased in the last 4 years, it's hard to believe what I've managed to get for my money.
I have an M1, Moog Model D, Moog Model 15, Moog Mini, Arp Odyssey, SEM, Prophet, VCS3, Mono/Poly. Not to mention the many awesome modern digital synths like Poison, Sunrizer, Zeeon, Thor, and of course Synthmaster One.
Unfortunately many of them I don't use anymore because they aren't AUv3 (yet!)
That’s true. When you look at it like that re synths. Re pricing comparisons I was just looking at it as a daw, some fx, and a few key synths on the desktop rather than so many. As a lot of them end up doing similar things anyway. Regardless I enjoy the iOS experience it just feels more fun to me.
I am looking forward to 3.1 and don’t want to get my hopes up too much but really do hope it comes through with the fixes and work flow improvements. If it does I’m literally going to have my iPad strapped to my body morning noon and night as I do have a lot of love for bm3.
I just dreamed the 3.1 release included a special AUv3 wrapper plugin for hosting and state-saving legacy IAA synths like the ones I listed above.
Alas, I don't think that's ever likely (possible?), but would still love to get a glimpse of whats coming in 3.1. i heard the beta testers have had an early version for about 3 weeks+ already. Right @samu ?
@tk32 said:
I just dreamed the 3.1 release included a special AUv3 wrapper plugin for hosting and state-saving legacy IAA synths like the ones I listed above.
Alas, I don't think that's ever likely (possible?), but would still love to get a glimpse of whats coming in 3.1. i heard the beta testers have had an early version for about 3 weeks+ already. Right @samu ?
If all those legacy synths did become resurrected I would almost feel too overwhelmed. I like that at the moment I am only using half a dozen key AU synths which are excellent. Anymore and it starts to kill my flow. I get creative paralysis. Although arp odessi would be great
Personally i think the cost of IOS stuff is outrageous, @brambos@mathieugarcia et al are not getting paid well enough for their hard work because of fly by night $5 app developers that bring the pay scale downwards.
Why would anybody invest £50-75 (Easily what B3 is worth) when they have been burned by the crappy nature of the IOS eco system, Each one of Rosettas plugins should be £10 each, and they would still be worth it by a country mile.
Add to this the fact that people go absolutely apptastic and buy everything they can, it turns in to a complete and total clusterpuck.
I am much more in the camp of "Buy what you need" vs "Support all IOS developers" some developers should be supported because they push the support right back, i am always first in line to purchase anything by @brambos for example, not because i am a fanbois, but because he investigates and fixes and updates based on user input, developers like that should get support.
Lets keep 3.1 beta talk out of the forum, last thing we need is more mentions of 3.1 haha.
Comments
FYI i disagree with him a little, things like EXT/Reaktor/Synthedit/Mux/Reaper etc have been going very strong for years, and they are the embodiment of the modular approach he talks of but on the desktop, so i cant agree IOS is creating its own flavour to be honest.
I think it "seems" to be embraced more because there are more noodlers on IOS/Mobile platforms that just want to noodle about and come up with something, rather then put time in to what some see as "the technical side" ie working in a DAW.
But even those noodlers favourite questions are "How do i render all the tracks in xyz noodle, so i can load them in to xyz DAW"
Personally i think that the embracement of the noodle is nothing more than the first steps of the less technical minded/noodler in to DAW space.
It is similar to the old guitarist timeline....
Guitar
Looper
Multitrack
DAW
Boring geek who posts about EQ frequencies on every audio forum.
At some point we all just end up geeks !!
Yep.. have to say I agree with you @5pinlink (sorry @brambos) - though its great to see developers sharing their views and insights.
Just like in every social and special interest group, there are the hardcore — and the noodlers. Some noodlers progress to the hardcore; others forever remain noodling.
AUM seems great for jamming (and possibly live performances) but you will always need DAW for creating proper tracks.
Perhaps you should write an article? I do keep gettng this feeling we are witnessing the birth of something special here in the world of iOS DAWs, AUv3's and BM3.
It just feels like Windows 3.11 in to 95 with the direct X plugins, lots of noodling apps and very little in the way of usable DAWs etc.
All the noodling apps eventually disappeared and the DAWs went from strength to strength, then noodling became a plugin in the DAW, then the DAWs designed for noodling started to happen, obviously it ends up at the completely modular DAW (Reaper) that takes it to the next level.
The big big difference is the IOS eco system, while noodling apps that are no longer developed on the desktop can still be used and will mostly still work (windows obviously) on IOS that simply isnt the case, old apps fall to unuse rapidly if they arent maintained.
What will be interesting to watch and may point towards @brambos thoughts a bit more, is how vintage iPads become, nobody is rushing out to buy an old win 95 box to run Rubber Duck or Hammerhead (see what i did there lol) but older iPads may well become collectible for the reason of running unobtanium.
The thing I love about IOS (right now, at least) is that I get close to 90% of the desktop experience, in my pocket, for about 10% of the price.
If I had to put time aside at home (or in a studio) to practice my hobby... it just wouldn't happen as much, realistically.
It's a bit like a sketchbook and pencil for an artist, versus a massive canvas and easel with oil paints.
Fortunately (for me), the fact that many iOS musicians are noodlers helps to keep app prices artificially low, and there are still some amzingly powerful apps being released... just like Synthmaster One last week. If the iOS scene matured we would see many more 'serious' tools being ported and released, but the prices would also leap considerably.
Completely agree with @5pinlink about the noodlers and that a daw is fundamental for anything serious. Feel that his article misses this point and detracts from the great daws that are being created for iOS like bm3 and cubasis.
Don’t agree @tk32 re low costs of iOS. When you are add up all the £10 - £25 pounds for synths (which are usually desktop cut downs) and fx and daws that are needed to mirror the desktop experience you are already looking at several hundred which is desktop equivalent prices. And many spend way more than that.
I paid £20 for BM3 back in July 2017, and just recently £15 for Synthmaster One.
Aside from the fact my ipad wasn't cheap, I still feel like I've robbed somebody here.
But yeah, I've probably spent a few hundred on DAWs and plugins altogether. No regrets.
No regrets at all I agree. I think it feels like they are so cheap because they are separately, but when you do add all the ‘daw components’ together that you need, it does add up. But yes bm3 is worth SO much more even than £40.
And ironically, I actually often feel more creative with iOS than on a desktop. J never thought I’d be saying that. But what with all the cool little fx apps you can buy they almost for me add so much more to my compositions. Things like perforator, grind, cool delays etc etc
If I include all the IAA synths i've purchased in the last 4 years, it's hard to believe what I've managed to get for my money.
I have a Korg M1, Moog Model D, Moog Model 15, Moog Mini, Arp Odyssey, Oberheim SEM, Korg Prophet, EMS VCS3, Korg Polysix, Korg Mono/Poly. Not to mention the many awesome modern digital synths like Poison, Sunrizer, Zeeon, Animoog, Thor, and of course Synthmaster One.
Unfortunately many of them I don't use anymore because they aren't AUv3 (yet!)
That’s true. When you look at it like that re synths. Re pricing comparisons I was just looking at it as a daw, some fx, and a few key synths on the desktop rather than so many. As a lot of them end up doing similar things anyway. Regardless I enjoy the iOS experience it just feels more fun to me.
I am looking forward to 3.1 and don’t want to get my hopes up too much but really do hope it comes through with the fixes and work flow improvements. If it does I’m literally going to have my iPad strapped to my body morning noon and night as I do have a lot of love for bm3.
I just dreamed the 3.1 release included a special AUv3 wrapper plugin for hosting and state-saving legacy IAA synths like the ones I listed above.
Alas, I don't think that's ever likely (possible?), but would still love to get a glimpse of whats coming in 3.1. i heard the beta testers have had an early version for about 3 weeks+ already. Right @samu ?
If all those legacy synths did become resurrected I would almost feel too overwhelmed. I like that at the moment I am only using half a dozen key AU synths which are excellent. Anymore and it starts to kill my flow. I get creative paralysis. Although arp odessi would be great
Personally i think the cost of IOS stuff is outrageous, @brambos @mathieugarcia et al are not getting paid well enough for their hard work because of fly by night $5 app developers that bring the pay scale downwards.
Why would anybody invest £50-75 (Easily what B3 is worth) when they have been burned by the crappy nature of the IOS eco system, Each one of Rosettas plugins should be £10 each, and they would still be worth it by a country mile.
Add to this the fact that people go absolutely apptastic and buy everything they can, it turns in to a complete and total clusterpuck.
I am much more in the camp of "Buy what you need" vs "Support all IOS developers" some developers should be supported because they push the support right back, i am always first in line to purchase anything by @brambos for example, not because i am a fanbois, but because he investigates and fixes and updates based on user input, developers like that should get support.
Lets keep 3.1 beta talk out of the forum, last thing we need is more mentions of 3.1 haha.