@winconway said:
Enough is enough, heres a bit of news for you, first jungle beats are always sped up, not timestretched, second you chop jungle beats, you do not warp them, if you are following the excrutiating multitude of clueless Ableton Live tutorials for Jungle, then dont, they are BS.
If you want me to make you a video for Jungle beats in B3 ask, it really isnt rocket science.
Also this whole "I cant stretch my beats" BS is really starting to annoy a lot of people, post the video you said ypu would post, or simply put, stop saying it, heres another hint for you, Ableton Live DOES NOT STRETCH OR WARP PARTS OF A SAMPLE, Ableton Live has a UI that "Pretends" to stretch or warp parts of a sample by hiding the slices at each new warp marker.
Also if you are using warp markers in a beat loop and are claiming they are more accurate than slicing...WTF, WTF pt2, WTF pt3.
Heres a big question for everybody...
Why when somebody has a gap in their skillset do they blame their tools rather than learn a way to fill the gap.
WE ALL want warp markers, that is a given, but it is nit a one feature fix all proposition.
Even after all that I still want @tk32 to meet him
iOS apps are great like toys for childrens, sorry for telling that ( I’ve buy plenty of the best, like BM3) but if you want doing great stuff you must turn to computer.
Bm3 is a Ableton clone that is place between hard and software, for those (like me) who wanted a standalone possibility to play live. But the thing is that on stage you’not Play on you touch screen, you need real faders and boutons, that is where BM3 hurts, mapping some parameters just for fun....
Some bugs that make decades to be fixed...
An hypothetical Mac OS version that never comes ...
frustration : that is the word.
So much time lost to réalise that if I want compose, I better spend my time with reason, logic, live or reaper and for live performance : sp404, mpc1000 or live, microkorg, kaospad and so on ....
And thanks god : Akai Force that is the solution that I did not found in BM3.
I’ll continue to play for fun with apps but now I build projects with real tools
@znomusic said:
iOS apps are great like toys for children’s, sorry for telling that ( I buy plenty of the best, like BM3) but if you wan’t doing great stuff you must turn to computer.
That statement is incorrect. If you need a computer to do great stuff than I feel sorry for you.
@znomusic said:
iOS apps are great like toys for children’s, sorry for telling that ( I buy plenty of the best, like BM3) but if you wan’t doing great stuff you must turn to computer.
That statement is incorrect. If you need a computer to do great stuff than I feel sorry for you.
Someone can post something great ( I mean that you can burn on a CD ) that can make me change my mind ? And please not that hip hop trap thing...
@znomusic said:
iOS apps are great like toys for childrens, sorry for telling that ( I’ve buy plenty of the best, like BM3) but if you want doing great stuff you must turn to computer.
Bm3 is a Ableton clone that is place between hard and software, for those (like me) who wanted a standalone possibility to play live. But the thing is that on stage you’not Play on you touch screen, you need real faders and boutons, that is where BM3 hurts, mapping some parameters just for fun....
Some bugs that make decades to be fixed...
An hypothetical Mac OS version that never comes ...
frustration : that is the word.
So much time lost to réalise that if I want compose, I better spend my time with reason, logic, live or reaper and for live performance : sp404, mpc1000 or live, microkorg, kaospad and so on ....
And thanks god : Akai Force that is the solution that I did not found in BM3.
I’ll continue to play for fun with apps but now I build projects with real tools
Toys can be for adults too you know... (I could show you some pictures).
If I were trying to be competitive in the music industry (and not just having fun) then I would certainly be focused almost entirely on desktop and hardware.
@znomusic said:
iOS apps are great like toys for children’s, sorry for telling that ( I buy plenty of the best, like BM3) but if you wan’t doing great stuff you must turn to computer.
That statement is incorrect. If you need a computer to do great stuff than I feel sorry for you.
Someone can post something great ( I mean that you can burn on a CD ) that can make me change my mind ? And please not that hip hop trap thing...
Generally, people who are making stuff worthy of release aren't posting in tiny communities like this, plenty of music has been released from "toy" music equipment, you just don't know about it.
I’m sorry to tell Sade things like that but just the topic of that discussion is not innocent and prouve that anyone on this chat is waiting for an real update...
(Implement midi au and can’t record the midi notes... let me Laught)
@znomusic said:
iOS apps are great like toys for children’s, sorry for telling that ( I buy plenty of the best, like BM3) but if you wan’t doing great stuff you must turn to computer.
That statement is incorrect. If you need a computer to do great stuff than I feel sorry for you.
Someone can post something great ( I mean that you can burn on a CD ) that can make me change my mind ? And please not that hip hop trap thing...
Did you just say burn on a CD . So is that what you consider great stuff? Just because you don't like Hip hop/ trap does not mean its not quality music and again if you can't make music with beatmaker as is then its not the app. I have released music on spotify, apple, Google you name it made with BM3.
I hope this doesn't come across as trolling but I can sort of relate to what @znomusic is saying. I hope to get Ableton and laptop again because I'm feeling frustrated by IOS music making. Its good but the flexibility of a pc daw such as Live with a powerful lapto is really not much competition. Also there's tonnes of powerful vsts which are totally free not so much the landscape in IOS.
Well for starters B3 is more a clone of Maschine, not Ableton Live, It has very little in common with Ableton Live, and other than the effects and sound library it is vastly superior to Maschine in every way, so whats the deal here, It's better than Maschine so lets compare it to Ableton, so when it's better than Ableton we compare it to Logic, when it's better than Logic we compare it to Kyma, when exactly does this utter nonsense stop ?
B3 is what it is, if Ableton works better for you, go use that and stop complaining that B3 isn't Ableton Live
1. What is stopping BM3 taking a stronger position in the iOS DAW market?
Assumptive Statements.
CONSUMER: I didn't know something was stopping. Uh-oh, BM3 lost a few places in the top paid iPad Apps and Top paid music categories this month.
Better look elsewhere now even though these stats fluctuate.
INTUA INTERNAL:. Look at these stats this month. We've grown this much in percentage etc.
Negative Publicity.
This forum post showing up in Google search results.
CONSUMER and/or BUSINESS PROFESSIONAL: After doing much research, it's apparent this won't be for me. Just look what I found on their forums. Moving on...
This whole thread is about how BM3 can be better I thought. I'm not hating on Beatmaker because I've made tonnes of tunes on it but I'm just yearning it to do things a bit better that's all.
@The_Bro said:
This whole thread is about how BM3 can be better I thought. I'm not hating on Beatmaker because I've made tonnes of tunes on it but I'm just yearning it to do things a bit better that's all.
But you have no qualification to ask for better, that may have changed if you had posted the video of samples drifting out of time, you didn't because they don't, and now you wish to make remarks about how Ableton Live is better, your remarks on these matters have zero authority when you give zero information.
Direct quote
@The_Bro said:
I hope this doesn't come across as trolling but I can sort of relate to what @znomusic is saying. I hope to get Ableton and laptop again because I'm feeling frustrated by IOS music making. Its good but the flexibility of a pc daw such as Live with a powerful lapto is really not much competition. Also there's tonnes of powerful vsts which are totally free not so much the landscape in IOS.
So which is it, IOS music making, or indeed quality of VST versus AU, oh wait it's no competition for Live, you have given zero reasons why any of this is better or worse, just wide nonsense statements, give some reasons why Ableton Live is better, Point out the weakness of AU plugins, why is IOS worse than (Windows/MacOS/Linux because you actually didn't give the information, again)
@The_Bro said:
This whole thread is about how BM3 can be better I thought. I'm not hating on Beatmaker because I've made tonnes of tunes on it but I'm just yearning it to do things a bit better that's all.
But you have no qualification to ask for better, that may have changed if you had posted the video of samples drifting out of time, you didn't because they don't, and now you wish to make remarks about how Ableton Live is better, your remarks on these matters have zero authority when you give zero information.
Direct quote
@The_Bro said:
I hope this doesn't come across as trolling but I can sort of relate to what @znomusic is saying. I hope to get Ableton and laptop again because I'm feeling frustrated by IOS music making. Its good but the flexibility of a pc daw such as Live with a powerful lapto is really not much competition. Also there's tonnes of powerful vsts which are totally free not so much the landscape in IOS.
So which is it, IOS music making, or indeed quality of VST versus AU, oh wait it's no competition for Live, you have given zero reasons why any of this is better or worse, just wide nonsense statements, give some reasons why Ableton Live is better, Point out the weakness of AU plugins, why is IOS worse than (Windows/MacOS/Linux because you actually didn't give the information, again)
Are you serious lol? Of course Ableton is better than BM3. That's not discounting that BM3 is very good as is but come on man. And yes the samples do drift out of time in BM3 don't accuse me of lying please. Thank you.
Where did i say that B3 is better than Ableton, don't try and put words in my mouth to further your agenda.
OK, post proof, or you are a liar, simple and easy.
Its easier for me to just post one to disprove the sample drift nonsense, oh and for good measure throw in the "B3 can't do Jungle beats" too.
This song is from the 1950s, you will struggle to find anything that actually drifts more in its natural playback state, but hey look, sliced, diced, stretched and not drifting (Other than natural drift, that you probably can't even hear and sounds huge to me, I can tell you exactly what beats, beat by beat it does drift on, again, caused by the live playing of a 50s song, not B3)
It is even locking a triggered stretched sample on tempo change, mid note/trigger, that is impressive in itself.
I think the fallacy of how one app compares to another app is the problem. And its not specific to BM3, its just the way things are in general. Personally, I believe its in the best interest of all apps to not compare themselves to others, but to show hey, here's my app and here's what it does and doesn't do. When (not, if) people start to compare and say well how does it do this like X does? or what's the difference between BM3 and Y? then don't fall into the comparison trap. There's really no comparing. Things work the way they do and promoting the feature set and workflow's that are the primary intention of the app is the best marketing, IMO. I think @tk32 book will be a godsend. Then its an easy you want to know how it works? here ya go.
I think almost all the negativity around this and any app is the comparison problem. As soon as it happens, everybody starts in on everybody and it goes negative. Sure people may use another app to do what BM3 does currently and they might want to know why should I use BM3 when I use X already? Then they need to be pointed to something that says well, this is how BM3 works so if you'd like to do what you do already in this workflow laid out in this documentation, then it might be for you. Here's the features as well so you know up front what it can and can't do.
As for updates and the long term growth of the app, that can only be addressed by intua to bring consumer confidence in whether the consumer is investing in this one time purchase and this is what they get or if they are investing in the future of the product as well. So far, I don't really see them trying to do this so I have personally become skeptical that its going to continue to be expanded much.
So to dovetail my issue with that and a possible solution related to a subscription plan, I'd rather see what blip is doing with NS2. They announced here you go. We don't have audio tracks yet, but they are coming in the future and you'll be able to buy that with an IAP. This is showing the consumer what they don't have right now, but what they will have in the future and at THAT time you can purchase it if you want it. The roadmap is set out there and you haven't spent the money on something that isn't there yet. If Matt never finishes audio tracks, fine, the consumer wasn't out the money spent on it. They spent the money on what was available at the time of purchase.
This seems like a way better business model to me. I would be happy to pay incremental money for additional features (not fixes). Then I own those features forever and intua can still make residual income if they choose to keep investing in their product. IMO, its a win/win.
I still love BM3 and I don't see there as a big problem with its growth in the market. I think there are honestly only so many people that will buy this stuff anyway. Its a niche market. The only way you are going to keep making money off of the same people is by either building a whole new product all the time or, like I am suggesting, continual updates that are paid for by the end users. People drop 3 bucks on apps all the time. I would be happy to drop 3 bucks on a decent new feature to BM3. No question.
Subscription model? Auxy is doing subscription and they are showing that they will give you a return on your investment, so for them it is working. But they've always been pretty transparent so IMO, they built confidence with their customers with that type of openness. Intua? No. I just don't have the confidence with intua currently that my monthly dollars would go to anything because of their choosing to play their hand tight to the vest. They would have to show me something to buy that is ready to ship (IAP). Then, and only then, would I give them more money.
Much to my BM3 users. I still believe in the platform, and these are my opinions to make me personally continue to invest in its future.
@znomusic said:
iOS apps are great like toys for children’s, sorry for telling that ( I buy plenty of the best, like BM3) but if you wan’t doing great stuff you must turn to computer.
That statement is incorrect. If you need a computer to do great stuff than I feel sorry for you.
Someone can post something great ( I mean that you can burn on a CD ) that can make me change my mind ? And please not that hip hop trap thing...
Did you just say burn on a CD . So is that what you consider great stuff? Just because you don't like Hip hop/ trap does not mean its not quality music and again if you can't make music with beatmaker as is then its not the app. I have released music on spotify, apple, Google you name it made with BM3.
@winconway said:
Well for starters B3 is more a clone of Maschine, not Ableton Live, It has very little in common with Ableton Live, and other than the effects and sound library it is vastly superior to Maschine in every way, so whats the deal here, It's better than Maschine so lets compare it to Ableton, so when it's better than Ableton we compare it to Logic, when it's better than Logic we compare it to Kyma, when exactly does this utter nonsense stop ?
B3 is what it is, if Ableton works better for you, go use that and stop complaining that B3 isn't Ableton Live
The topic isn’t to debate ?
Each and every one as to tell is opinion and discuss on it. If I din’t Like B3 I would not on this chat
@winconway said:
Well for starters B3 is more a clone of Maschine, not Ableton Live, It has very little in common with Ableton Live, and other than the effects and sound library it is vastly superior to Maschine in every way, so whats the deal here, It's better than Maschine so lets compare it to Ableton, so when it's better than Ableton we compare it to Logic, when it's better than Logic we compare it to Kyma, when exactly does this utter nonsense stop ?
B3 is what it is, if Ableton works better for you, go use that and stop complaining that B3 isn't Ableton Live
The topic isn’t to debate ?
Each and every one as to tell is opinion and discuss on it. If I din’t Like B3 I would not on this chat
But you've already stated that you don't like the app:
That pretty much says that you think ALL ios apps are toys and only for "fun", where all your "computer apps" are apparently for "not fun". I mean...you knew when you bought BM3 that your ipad doesn't have actual fader's on it so I don't understand your point. You can buy a midi controller with faders and control BM3, so not sure what you are going on about.
So what are you doing to answer any of the 5 questions asked by the OP? You seem to be complaining with no solutions. If your solution is "buy desktop software" you are missing the point entirely.
@drez said
I think almost all the negativity around this and any app is the comparison problem. As soon as it happens, everybody starts in on everybody and it goes negative.
This thread, in comparing BM3 to all these other apps, is hammering home my point.
Comments
Even after all that I still want @tk32 to meet him
iOS apps are great like toys for childrens, sorry for telling that ( I’ve buy plenty of the best, like BM3) but if you want doing great stuff you must turn to computer.
Bm3 is a Ableton clone that is place between hard and software, for those (like me) who wanted a standalone possibility to play live. But the thing is that on stage you’not Play on you touch screen, you need real faders and boutons, that is where BM3 hurts, mapping some parameters just for fun....
Some bugs that make decades to be fixed...
An hypothetical Mac OS version that never comes ...
frustration : that is the word.
So much time lost to réalise that if I want compose, I better spend my time with reason, logic, live or reaper and for live performance : sp404, mpc1000 or live, microkorg, kaospad and so on ....
And thanks god : Akai Force that is the solution that I did not found in BM3.
I’ll continue to play for fun with apps but now I build projects with real tools
That statement is incorrect. If you need a computer to do great stuff than I feel sorry for you.
Someone can post something great ( I mean that you can burn on a CD ) that can make me change my mind ? And please not that hip hop trap thing...
Toys can be for adults too you know... (I could show you some pictures).
If I were trying to be competitive in the music industry (and not just having fun) then I would certainly be focused almost entirely on desktop and hardware.
Generally, people who are making stuff worthy of release aren't posting in tiny communities like this, plenty of music has been released from "toy" music equipment, you just don't know about it.
I’m sorry to tell Sade things like that but just the topic of that discussion is not innocent and prouve that anyone on this chat is waiting for an real update...
(Implement midi au and can’t record the midi notes... let me Laught)
While you may not have gotten the update you wanted, plenty of people did, and they happily make music on the app
Did you just say burn on a CD
. So is that what you consider great stuff? Just because you don't like Hip hop/ trap does not mean its not quality music and again if you can't make music with beatmaker as is then its not the app. I have released music on spotify, apple, Google you name it made with BM3.
Now let's get back on topic.
I hope this doesn't come across as trolling but I can sort of relate to what @znomusic is saying. I hope to get Ableton and laptop again because I'm feeling frustrated by IOS music making. Its good but the flexibility of a pc daw such as Live with a powerful lapto is really not much competition. Also there's tonnes of powerful vsts which are totally free not so much the landscape in IOS.
E.g here's some bits I did in Live from a long time ago just so you can hear the difference!!
Well for starters B3 is more a clone of Maschine, not Ableton Live, It has very little in common with Ableton Live, and other than the effects and sound library it is vastly superior to Maschine in every way, so whats the deal here, It's better than Maschine so lets compare it to Ableton, so when it's better than Ableton we compare it to Logic, when it's better than Logic we compare it to Kyma, when exactly does this utter nonsense stop ?
B3 is what it is, if Ableton works better for you, go use that and stop complaining that B3 isn't Ableton Live
1. What is stopping BM3 taking a stronger position in the iOS DAW market?
Assumptive Statements.
CONSUMER: I didn't know something was stopping. Uh-oh, BM3 lost a few places in the top paid iPad Apps and Top paid music categories this month.
Better look elsewhere now even though these stats fluctuate.
INTUA INTERNAL:. Look at these stats this month. We've grown this much in percentage etc.
Negative Publicity.
This forum post showing up in Google search results.
CONSUMER and/or BUSINESS PROFESSIONAL: After doing much research, it's apparent this won't be for me. Just look what I found on their forums. Moving on...
EDIT: Yes, I am guilty of adding to this.
This whole thread is about how BM3 can be better I thought. I'm not hating on Beatmaker because I've made tonnes of tunes on it but I'm just yearning it to do things a bit better that's all.
But you have no qualification to ask for better, that may have changed if you had posted the video of samples drifting out of time, you didn't because they don't, and now you wish to make remarks about how Ableton Live is better, your remarks on these matters have zero authority when you give zero information.
Direct quote
So which is it, IOS music making, or indeed quality of VST versus AU, oh wait it's no competition for Live, you have given zero reasons why any of this is better or worse, just wide nonsense statements, give some reasons why Ableton Live is better, Point out the weakness of AU plugins, why is IOS worse than (Windows/MacOS/Linux because you actually didn't give the information, again)
Are you serious lol? Of course Ableton is better than BM3. That's not discounting that BM3 is very good as is but come on man. And yes the samples do drift out of time in BM3 don't accuse me of lying please. Thank you.
Where did i say that B3 is better than Ableton, don't try and put words in my mouth to further your agenda.
OK, post proof, or you are a liar, simple and easy.
Samples don't drift. People do.
I'll have to post a video I guess.
Yes. We've been waiting for it to help you in over a month now
Its easier for me to just post one to disprove the sample drift nonsense, oh and for good measure throw in the "B3 can't do Jungle beats" too.
This song is from the 1950s, you will struggle to find anything that actually drifts more in its natural playback state, but hey look, sliced, diced, stretched and not drifting (Other than natural drift, that you probably can't even hear and sounds huge to me, I can tell you exactly what beats, beat by beat it does drift on, again, caused by the live playing of a 50s song, not B3)
It is even locking a triggered stretched sample on tempo change, mid note/trigger, that is impressive in itself.
Todays results and today only. Looks good to me. How many iPad Apps are there again?
Here is a few options. Choose wisely.
A. Leave an honest 5 star review focusing on the positives and maybe stating your issues/requests in the bottom portion of your review.
B. Leave a poor/mediocre review because that's what you do.
C. Do nothing.
If this entire post is about anything positive and helping out. I'd choose A but that's just an opinion.
I think the fallacy of how one app compares to another app is the problem. And its not specific to BM3, its just the way things are in general. Personally, I believe its in the best interest of all apps to not compare themselves to others, but to show hey, here's my app and here's what it does and doesn't do. When (not, if) people start to compare and say well how does it do this like X does? or what's the difference between BM3 and Y? then don't fall into the comparison trap. There's really no comparing. Things work the way they do and promoting the feature set and workflow's that are the primary intention of the app is the best marketing, IMO. I think @tk32 book will be a godsend. Then its an easy you want to know how it works? here ya go.
I think almost all the negativity around this and any app is the comparison problem. As soon as it happens, everybody starts in on everybody and it goes negative. Sure people may use another app to do what BM3 does currently and they might want to know why should I use BM3 when I use X already? Then they need to be pointed to something that says well, this is how BM3 works so if you'd like to do what you do already in this workflow laid out in this documentation, then it might be for you. Here's the features as well so you know up front what it can and can't do.
As for updates and the long term growth of the app, that can only be addressed by intua to bring consumer confidence in whether the consumer is investing in this one time purchase and this is what they get or if they are investing in the future of the product as well. So far, I don't really see them trying to do this so I have personally become skeptical that its going to continue to be expanded much.
So to dovetail my issue with that and a possible solution related to a subscription plan, I'd rather see what blip is doing with NS2. They announced here you go. We don't have audio tracks yet, but they are coming in the future and you'll be able to buy that with an IAP. This is showing the consumer what they don't have right now, but what they will have in the future and at THAT time you can purchase it if you want it. The roadmap is set out there and you haven't spent the money on something that isn't there yet. If Matt never finishes audio tracks, fine, the consumer wasn't out the money spent on it. They spent the money on what was available at the time of purchase.
This seems like a way better business model to me. I would be happy to pay incremental money for additional features (not fixes). Then I own those features forever and intua can still make residual income if they choose to keep investing in their product. IMO, its a win/win.
I still love BM3 and I don't see there as a big problem with its growth in the market. I think there are honestly only so many people that will buy this stuff anyway. Its a niche market. The only way you are going to keep making money off of the same people is by either building a whole new product all the time or, like I am suggesting, continual updates that are paid for by the end users. People drop 3 bucks on apps all the time. I would be happy to drop 3 bucks on a decent new feature to BM3. No question.
Subscription model? Auxy is doing subscription and they are showing that they will give you a return on your investment, so for them it is working. But they've always been pretty transparent so IMO, they built confidence with their customers with that type of openness. Intua? No. I just don't have the confidence with intua currently that my monthly dollars would go to anything because of their choosing to play their hand tight to the vest. They would have to show me something to buy that is ready to ship (IAP). Then, and only then, would I give them more money.
Much
to my BM3 users. I still believe in the platform, and these are my opinions to make me personally continue to invest in its future.
Ah I’m interested on listen it 👍
The topic isn’t to debate ?
Each and every one as to tell is opinion and discuss on it. If I din’t Like B3 I would not on this chat
But you've already stated that you don't like the app:
https://intua.net/forums/index.php?p=/discussion/comment/41791/#Comment_41791
That pretty much says that you think ALL ios apps are toys and only for "fun", where all your "computer apps" are apparently for "not fun". I mean...you knew when you bought BM3 that your ipad doesn't have actual fader's on it so I don't understand your point. You can buy a midi controller with faders and control BM3, so not sure what you are going on about.
So what are you doing to answer any of the 5 questions asked by the OP? You seem to be complaining with no solutions. If your solution is "buy desktop software" you are missing the point entirely.
@drez - that was an awesome post.
Thanks for steering this conversation back onto the main topic.
Btw, the book is coming along nicely, and will be out in the public domain very soon...
This thread, in comparing BM3 to all these other apps, is hammering home my point.
@drez well said. I still believe also.
@znomusic I don’t think it’s your kind of music.