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Samples length and External Hardware Controller

julianbremannjulianbremann
edited May 2013 in Support
Hi,
I have to questions:
1. Is there a time limit to the length of the sample that can be loaded into the drum machine/sampler? I'd like to be able to load in a full length tracks type os families so maybe 3-5 min.
2. Is there an external controller (hardware) that can be plugged in to a iPhone 5 to control the Beatmaker 2 for live performances?
Thanks!
J.

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Comments

  • still2still2
    edited 7:07PM
    Hi Julian,

    I can't give an answer for question 1, but I assume it should work.

    For question 2:
    As far as I know there are still no devices for the lightning connector. But I would recommend buying an apple adapter - lightning to 30-pin (old connection). Then I would buy the very stable iRig MIDI. This has REAL MIDI ports - not that USB MIDI stuff. With that solution you should be able to use ANY MIDI controller you like (of course it also needs a real MIDI output). I don't think a camera connection kit will work with iphone - so USB MIDI is in your case nonrelevant anyway.

    But the most important question you should ask yourself is: what do you like to control?
    BM2 has many MIDI bugs. In live performances it is often very useful to have a very quick control of mute/unmute tracks - also enable/disable FX - often you want to loop a certain section for some time...

    All this functions are completely buggy in terms of MIDI - it's not possible to control them or other strange things will happen... This buggy functions remain since many months, and it doesn't seem that Intua will fix them.
  • julianbremannjulianbremann
    edited 7:07PM
    Hey,
    Thanks for he reply.
    It's very helpful to know that it's not really that stable. It seems not really being the best solution then for what i need. I thought that maybe it'd be a good way to replace using ableton live for live performance since i didn't want to take a laptop with me to shows but apparently not. i might try to seattle on a hardware sampler instead although i haven't found one that has all functions that ableton would have for instance. but anyhow, thanks for the reply again..
    greetings,
    J.
  • dubhausdiscodubhausdisco
    edited 7:07PM
    Hello,
    I've loaded whole songs onto pads with no problem, just have to check the disk streaming box.
    As for #2, what still2 says is technically true, but I wouldn't say the app has "many" midi bugs.
    Now if those few things are what you really need, than I guess one would say the app has "many" midi bugs.
  • still2still2
    edited 7:07PM
    I agree, "many" is a highly relatively word. <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_e_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->
    But if you imagine that ALL on/off buttons (not just mute/unmute, etc...) aren't controlable in BM2 - this is a huge (and important) amount of controls!

    Also the fact that ALL (100%) external MIDI adjustments which you've done, are getting reset on the loop start point (see here <!-- l --><a class="postlink-local" href="http://www.intua.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3634">viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3634</a><!-- l -->) - is such an unbelievable huge MIDI bug, with the result that using a controller in loop mode is completely not possible! And I assume a loop mode is one of the most essential sequencer functions - otherwise it wouldn't be common that almost every sequencer has one.

    My point of view is: controlling BM2 with a controller doesn't make much sense.
  • dubhausdiscodubhausdisco
    edited 7:07PM
    You're right- that is unacceptable. The only way around the looping thing is to manually draw the automation... Not good for live..
  • still2still2
    edited 7:07PM
    ... and also not good for producing. Already in this state I would like to adjust ADSR, cutoff, volume and all that stuff. It doesn't depend just on automations.
  • julianbremannjulianbremann
    edited 7:07PM
    Thanks both for your replies.
    This sounds interesting. I think I could test if it works. I read everywhere online though that the irig midi is not that well built - it seems doesn't fit well into the ihopne 4 docks so wonder if i get a converter from the iPhone 5 to the 30 pin connector if it'll have the same issue. also seems it has issues with getting charged through the provided usb. would you have any impressions about it?
    also, i can only use controllers that have midi input/output, correct? the usb ones wouldn't for or can i have a usb-midi adaptor of some sort, or it would not work at all? i'm asking cause it seems most controllers these days have usb ports rather than actual midi cords.
    Finally, i'm guessing that it'd depend on the controller to figure out what and how to map the different parameters for BM2 to them. So if I have let's say four tracks running in the multitrack window would need to be able to play those with the controller and stop them and then changing banks and triggering samples from the sampler and then maybe assign some effects to some knobs of the controller so that I can effect in real time either the samples or the playing tracks. I don't know if that sounds doable to you..
    Thanks again..
    Greetings
  • dwarmandwarman
    edited 7:07PM
    No problems with MIDI over USB. In fact it is the only way in. I have had up to 5 MIDI USB sources plugged in to the CCK via a USB hub.

    Mapping might be on your controller, BM2 can do some custom assignments, or use MidiBridge mappers.
  • dwarmandwarman
    edited 7:07PM
    oops, Network is also a way in.
  • julianbremannjulianbremann
    edited 7:07PM
    Thanks dwarman,
    But I'm not sure what do you mean. I'm talking about an iPhone 5 and not an iPad, it seems that the the CCK doesn't work for the iPhone 5, only for the iPad. the only two interfaces i have an option for are the irig and the line 6 mobilizer II but it seems the better choice is the irig, although none of them supports usb midi, only standard 5 pin midi, So then my question is is there a way to convert the 5 pin midi connecting cable to usb so that i could connect a usb midi controller to the irig?
  • dwarmandwarman
    edited 7:07PM
    Right. The Akai Synthstation25 works with iPhone 5 via a 30 pin to lightning adapter, but is a bit short on controllers. Internally you can use MidiBridge to convert it to Virtual MIDI for BM2 and synths. Also takes audio out to its ports on the back of the keyboard.

    Akai went the custom protocol route through 30 pins specifically so they could work with the iPhone 5, since it does not see USB through the connector.

    Otherwise Network MIDI works, best over an ad-hoc network. Or the iRig MIDI.
  • julianbremannjulianbremann
    edited 7:07PM
    well i don't want a keyboard controller, i'm not planning to play the synth out of BM2. basically i'd like to have 4 audio tracks playing in the sequencer section and have a drum machine loaded with samples as fifth track. I'd put like a couple of effects on one or two of the audio tracks. So would like to get a pad type controller to be able to trigger the pads of the drum machine loaded with samples while the back track is playing. also would like to be able to assign the effects on the audio tracks to knobs (let's say one for delay and another for reverb) and so be able to increase/decrease the effects mix while turning the knobs of the controller.

    That's pretty much it, so wonder if that is possible?

    Also, am not certain of (if) MidiBridge would be of any help in this scenario, so can you elaborate on it further, if that's the case?

    Thanks again...
  • dubhausdiscodubhausdisco
    edited 7:07PM
    For a live scenario like you describe, at this point I wouldn't trust an iPhone to get the job done. Consider getting an iPad, which would broaden your options for midi connectivity too.
    Otherwise the Irig midi and something like the Akai mpd32 (with power adapter!) would work just fine.
  • dwarmandwarman
    edited 7:07PM
    You're using a single App then, so no, MidiBridge does not help you for routing purposes. However, you might need it for note mapping, since BM2 uses a non-standard and non-changeable note number set for its drumpads (note number 0, C-2, up).

    But your controller choices are very limited. The iPhone does not support USB Audio/MIDI through its dock connecter, hence the special system Akai (and by my current research nobody else) did to get past it with the SynthStation25. So I think it is that or the iRig MIDI interface (which I believe plays tricks modulating the MIDI onto Audio and gets in via the microphone pin, probably at 1/3 the bitrate and buffered mightily). Unless somebody (Akai?) comes out with a dock solution. NetworkMIDI might be OK in a studio setting, with an ad-hoc network on the controller end, but I would hate to rely on it for a live gig.

    Alternatively, as already suggested, get an iPad and CCK and move your horizons out. The iPad Mini might also be a lower cost and useable solution there for you. You won't need to buy your apps again either. And it still fits your jacket pocket.
  • julianbremannjulianbremann
    edited 7:07PM
    thanks guys for your replies, this is pretty helpful.
    you mention the iPad as an option. but doesn't the new iPad have the same lightning connector as the iPhone? Or the only think that works with the CCK is the old 30 pin connector? Also, if this is the case would a 4th generation iPod touch for example do the trick as well? I mean, would the CCK work with an iPod touch 4th generation with 30 pin connector and BM2 so that I could directly plugin any usb midi controller with no need of anything else but the CCK?
    THanks!
  • dwarmandwarman
    edited 7:07PM
    There is a CCK for the lightning iPad 4 that also works as expected or the 30 pin lightning adapter works too. Performance is about 2x the iPad 3.
  • julianbremannjulianbremann
    edited 7:07PM
    ok, thanks for the iPad info, but i'm more interested in the iPhone/ipod options. for many reasons - first price wise, second portability, third if i had an iPad why would i need a controller? i mean i'd just play with the iPad. plus i want to be able to hide it while playing live shows and obviously a smaller device is easier to hide.
    so my question still is if i could use a controller such as the QuNeo with either my iPhone 5 or an iPod touch 4th generation (with 30 pin connector).
    thanks.
  • still2still2
    edited 7:07PM
    If the threadopener feels happy with his iPhone 5, I don't understand the recommendations for a completely new iDevice.

    Because of more power? the iphone 5 should deliver the same power like an iPad 4 - the iPad mini has less than the half power of an iPhone 5!

    Because of the camera connetion kit? Hmm, there is such a big disadvantage, which is the reason I NEVER would use a cck: Your iDevice doesn't stay charged. When I'm in the middle of a really great inspiration and then my iDevice is telling me that I have to stop making music for 4-5 hours, because it needs to be charged again - that would be such a creativity killer for me!

    If you really just can find a USB-MIDI only controller which fits to your purposes - there are only 2 expensive solutions, if you want to use them with the iRig MIDI (which I would still recommend, it also charges the iDevice):

    <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.kentonuk.com/products/items/utilities/usb-host.shtml">http://www.kentonuk.com/products/items/ ... host.shtml</a><!-- m -->

    <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.iconnectivity.com/iConnectMIDI">http://www.iconnectivity.com/iConnectMIDI</a><!-- m -->
  • DeeJohnsonDeeJohnson
    edited 7:07PM
    Get This! It is ana adapter so you can use the Camera connection kit with the iphone 5.

    <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://store.apple.com/us/product/MD823ZM/A/lightning-to-30-pin-adapter">http://store.apple.com/us/product/MD823 ... in-adapter</a><!-- m -->

    It works with the irig krys midi contoller and iphone 5, and I think it is your only option unless you want to buy an ipad.
  • dubhausdiscodubhausdisco
    edited 7:07PM
    Dee,
    I don't see anything on that page that mentions cck with iPhone 5?
  • dwarmandwarman
    edited 7:07PM
    I tried that. Doesn't work - iPhone 5 does not support the cck in any form, adapter or not. Trouble is none of the Apple bumpf says so. Fortunately they refunded me for the kit. The adapter is good for registered Apple Devices with lightning or 30 pin cables (like the Apogee Jam and the Akai Synthstation25) but those use proprietary Apple pathway into the phone, not USB.
  • julianbremannjulianbremann
    edited 7:07PM
    Thanks y'all, this was helpful.
    I was able to make it work fine with the irig midi. Now trying to figure out the mapping and seems it'll work out!
    <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_e_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->
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