Choke groups and auto loop behavior - fix?

edited January 2013 in Support
Hello Intua Team. I use the choke groups quite a bit on the drum sampler and noticed that if you have pads set to one-shot and in the same choke group, the behavior is expected - that is the behavior of pressing pad A cuts off the sound of pad B.... but if you have both pad A and pad B in the same choke group and both set to auto-loop, then pad A will cut off pad B, but only until end of sample plays, then it will switch automatically back to playing pad B and keep switching with shorter and shorter switching times until it gets to one bar.

Would really love it if this could be fixed so the pad playing in auto-loop gets cutoff by another auto-loop pad in the same group and stays looping until you either toggle off or press another pad in the same group.

Right now I have to toggle off pad A at the same time exactly as toggling on pad B to get the behavior correct. This can get difficult if switching between two different pairs of pads in two groups or more than that and it is just about impossible as you have to get 4 fingers or more hitting at exactly the same time to have the two pairs switch off in choke fashion.

To simplify, test with a drum beat on pad 1 set to auto-loop at 4 bars, then another drum beat set to auto-loop at 4 bars on pad 2 and have them in the same choke group. Now set pad 3 with a lead loop set the same, and finally another lead loop set the same on pad 4. Put pad 3 and pad 4 in the same choke group as each other, but a different group than pad 1 and pad 2 are in. Now start a rhythm by hitting pad 1 and pad 3 at the same time. Switch to changing your rhythm by hitting pad 2 and pad 4 now. You would expect it to keep looping pad 2 and pad 4 until you toggle off or hit pad 1 and pad 3 again, but instead you will see it auto switch at end of sample back to pad 1 and pad 3, then keep switching in progressively shorter intervals until at one bar they switch back and forth.

The only way to switch and stay switched is to press pad 1, pad 2, pad 3, and pad 4 at the exact same time.

Would love a fix for it.

Comments

  • edited 12:08PM
    Not sure if I understand correctly. First how do you get choke groups? Someone else mentioned this to me because I had a question similar to yours but I didn't understand how to set up.

    If I want a pad to cut off another pad I have to change the polyphonic from the defaulted 16 to 1 so only one pad can play at a time. My confusion was thinking the mono polyphonic setting in the trigger section of the pads was the same as the polyphinc setting on the 2nd page of the bank selection section.

    Maybe this will help you get the results your looking for or at least in the right direction.
  • edited 12:08PM
    Thanks for the reply, but that was me that mentioned it in your polyphony question. <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_e_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->

    The feature that is "X-Group" (the third page setting of where you set trigger type) is the choke group setting. If you have some one-shot pad samples, try putting them in the same "X-Group". They will cut each other off as a regular choke group is supposed to.

    My problem is they don't do this correctly when set to auto-loop.
  • edited 12:08PM
    A great example for how to use an X-Group is to have two pads in the same group and on one pad a closed hihat, the other an open hihat. Play the open hihat, then hit the pad with closed hihat and it will cutoff the open hihat's sound. Nice for drumming which is why a lot of drum samplers have this feature. Ports very nicely to looped samples when sequencing. Cuts down on the toggle off hits you have to make. Ableton's clip tracks are essentially a choke group per track. That's why you can only play one clip at a time in the same track. Beautiful for looping sample switching.

    Polyphony should be separate, particularly global polyphony.
  • edited 12:08PM
    The fact that Intua even put that feature in there shows they are miles ahead in thinking about what people need in a drum sampler. Like I was saying, this is implemented perfectly with one-shot pads.

    The X-Group type of setting is just one of the reasons BM 2 is the best.

    I guess while I'm asking about this.....can we get a per pad quantize??? Pleeeease???
    (Think page 4 of pad trigger settings, right after the X-Group!)

    <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_e_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->
  • edited 12:08PM
    Now I understand exactly what your talking about. Thanks for the great info. Never thought of using the xy pads in that way.
  • edited 12:08PM
    Maybe I'm missing something here to, but I sure would like to see a repeat button on the live modes page so you can roll one-shots at 1/4, 1/8, 1/16, 1/32, etc.
  • edited 12:08PM
    So, to sum up....to make BM 2's drum sampler the be-all, end-all of software drum samplers:

    Fix X-Group on auto-loop triggers
    Add a big repeat button on live modes and a knob to address if repeat is 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, 1/16, 1/32
    Add pad sample layering with usual options of same time, round robin, etc.
    Skins for drum sampler? (Just going over the top here - I think the UI of the drum sampler's colors are a bit drab, but honestly could care less if they were pink and purple as long as they had the features they do now. Features beat beauty any day of the week and you guys have laid out the options very intuitively).

    Did I mention I loooovvve BM 2??? That its the best app around??? Best money I ever spent on my ipad???

    Ok, that was pure suck up, but really, I am passionate about this app and all it can do. It has inspired me to make music again and it sat unused on my ipad for almost a year until I started tinkering with its potential because other apps fell short.
  • edited 12:08PM
    I noticed auto-loop mode has the option of 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, etc. Whats the difference between that and the live mode knobs you want? Just curious. If it can help me more I would def like to know.
  • edited 12:08PM
    I noticed auto-loop mode has the option of 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, etc. Whats the difference between that and the live mode knobs you want? Just curious. If it can help me more I would def like to know.

    Repeat is a momentary on/off feature. The auto loop settings don't give what you need. Even setting auto-loop at 1/16 and changing to hold+loop (which is where you set the hold+loop time) does not behave the right way. There needs to be a button that is just a momentary toggle set to whatever timed note you can pick. I can do this using my Korg pad-Kontrol with the roll button and the x-y pad on the padKontrol to control timing of the repeat, but I would like that built in to BM 2 as a lot of times I don't have any external controller setup and just use the touch screen and BM 2.
  • edited 12:08PM
    I also use the auto looping to great extent. I also noticed the choke group behavior isnt what one would want. I would also like better functionality. It would be crazy awesome to have one loop choked by any other loops in the same choke group.

    Also, wouldn't it make sense to have a separate quantize for the auto loops?

    Thanks Intua for thinking forward.
  • edited 12:08PM
    That's what I'm talking about! Hope this one gets addressed soon.
  • edited 12:08PM
    hey Wormhelmet, you think you can give me a quick tutorial of what you are doing, and what a choke group is? choke group for dummy's tutorial?

    Learning new things everyday, thanking everyone for contributing to this forum.


    thank you
  • edited 12:08PM
    The most basic demonstration of this would be to have two samples on two pads. The first pad containing an open hihat sound, the second pad has the closed hihat sound. Highlight the first pad and use the menu with the finger pressing the pad icon - the trigger menu. Scroll to page three on that menu and you will find a setting called X-Group. Place the first pad in X-Group 2. Now place the closed hihat (second pad) also in X-Group 2. Tap out a hihat beat on the first pad with it set to one shot trigger mode (first page of trigger menu) and alternate occasional hits with closed hihat (also set to one shot trigger type).

    You will hear the closed hihat choking the open hihat sustained sound so it cuts off the sustained ring (hence the term choke group - Intua calls this the X-Group). This is the simplest terms for a choke group and how it can be used in BM 2. Most drum sampler programs that are worth having a look at use choke groups for just this type of scenario. It can be used for much more though. Particularly with auto-loop pads, where one looped beat will cut off the previous looped beat like a beat change up.

    Hope that explains it better.
  • edited 12:08PM
    I use choke groups to change up anything I want to cut off the sound of one pad with another.

    Vocal samples - great way to chop transition on a vocal snippet set across multiple pads - like a glitched vocal

    Looped pad beats, leads, basses - you can change the sequence of your song transitions easily by using a choke group to make sure that you do not get overlapping or mistimed overlap beats, leads, basses.

    Sequencing auto-loop beats - so lets say the beginning of measure three contains a note on message in the sequencer for a looped drum beat. This will play indefinitely until a note off hit is pressed and a note on for the new beat change you are using on another auto-loop set pad with the drum beat change. Having them set in a working choke group together means you will not have to send the note off message on the first beat because the note on message for the second beat is choking off the pad with the first beat.

    Play around with the one shot trigger and X-Group in BM 2 and you will see how it works. Works fine for one shot triggered pads. Just the auto-loop I would like to see fixed.
  • edited 12:08PM
    i guess i am the FIRST one to support the OP itt. +1 for autoloop fix. PLEASE fix it!
  • edited 12:08PM
    awe great Wormhelmet! totally understand now
  • Yes, the behaviour of x-grouped Auto Loops is fairly irritating, so +1 for Wormhelmet's motion from me. And I'd like to add that I'd love to see the MIDI out notes for Auto Loops parallel the state of the pad rather than the input signal, so that you could hook up a pad controller's LEDs for meaningful feedback (think QuNeo or Maschine).

    But seeing that this thread is now over half a year old, and nothing happened, I fear we might get neither.
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