Sound Delay if I use the DynamicsFX (fixed)
Hi,
after the 3.0.9 Update I have a problem with the DynamicsFX.
If I use it, the sound from the channel has a hearable lag/delay.
Finished Songs are now very messed up. Does anyone have the same problem?
(iPad Air iOS 9.3.3)
Comments
Confirmed =( here’s a screenshot of a basic sample on bank A pad 1, with a compressor on the fx chain, recorded to audio track 1. Then I recorded the same pattern with the compressor in bypass to track 2.
iPad Pro 2015 iOS 11.2.2
That dynamic effect should be set on fire and then jumped on to put it out, it is horrible, hopefully the rethink it at some point and also break off the limiter to its own effect, this bug may give them the boost to do it.
Strangely enough that screen grab looks like a latent VST with no PDC enabled, does AUv3 even support reporting latency to host ?
Do the native effects have PDC ?
@5pinlink I'm assuming you're asking @mathieugarcia, but if not I have no idea. I will say that I threw rough rider 2 (auv3) on the same channel and, with the native dynamics compressor bypassed, attempted to create similar settings, and the recorded results had 0 lag and are just as on time as the dry recording.
Yeah hopefully @mathieugarcia or @brambos could comment on that.
think I might pull the trigger on the DDMF NY compressor, or something similar. anyone have any recommendations for awesome auv3 compressor plugins?
You missed it on offer a couple weeks back, and he rarely does sales.
I have been hoping one of the heavyweights like Klanghelm/Toneboosters/TDR would cross over to IOS, but it looks unlikely.
To be fair, i think Intua will tweak this at some point and it will be the daddy haha.
Personally i want some limiting amps, i rarely use comps if at all possible, prefer 76s and LAs and MUs
Welp...can’t work on anything in BM3 till this gets fixed. I use the Dynamics plugin everywhere.
There is a 25ms lookahead for peak detection. This is probably why you have this delay.
So will be pdc be added to compensate this ?
Indeed. Without PDC, stacking compressors in channels is now going to destroy everything I’ve got already. I need to be able to shut it off as well.
Also, 25ms seems pretty long as a static setting.
Indeed. Without it, stacking compressors in channels is going to destroy everything I’ve got already. Also, I need to be able to shut it off.
Same here, opened a recently finished project to export so I can remix it but the timing is all off
@5pinlink @drez @mathieugarcia why is the look ahead 25ms? For the side chain? Sorry if I do not fully understand this.
If it’s default is 25 ms, isn’t that more for the side chain to catch transients way ahead of time against BM3 audio engine and plugins? What if we aren’t side-chaining?
Im assuming this being default is to try to prevent digital clipping with fast attack times and to compensate for plugin delay.
Anyone able to explain to me why this dynamics effect is so difficult to get set? After doing a little reading, isn’t lookahead also kind of like an attack time softener (sorry doing laundry) when doing brick wall limiting?
I’m just trying to wrap my head around this, because like @drez said, My previous sessions sound awfully weird.
It’s questions day. Lol.
@mathieugarcia it sounds like something changed with the timing in 3.0.9 for dynamics if it’s impacting existing projects. Can you confirm?
I guess the best workaround for users at this moment is to disable (or remove) dynamics from any FX chains in their sessions until this is fixed.. then use AudioDamage 'Rough Rider' (it's free!) if you need any compression
NB - other AUv3 compressors (and limiters) are available, but no expanders.
That’s great and all minus the fact Rough Rider is a specific type of comp and has a distinct effect. And I don’t know how resource hungry one is over the other. I personally haven’t done so yet but am very much interested in trying all Klevgrand comps.
It’s okay. I’m probably going to bake everything into audio files this release anyways and just say screw fx. It cuts down many resources.
The latency is normally because it is lookahead, however in this case it needs to be as close to zero latency as possible because BM3 is a big performance app, so it needs the realtime aspect.
So not only does it need PDC if it is going to be 25ms, but it is going to need a zero delay tick box too in case somebody is using it for performance.
Zero delay will probably mean a big performance hit though.
Thing is this is normally only an issue with brickwalling, so this may just be for the limiter, which shouldn't even be built in to the dynamics, comps and expanders are normally the same control layout, but while limiting is basically compression, the control layout is normally completely different.
I believe Klevgrand Korvpressor could be considered an expander, right? Also Kymatica AUFX:Push. I'm not saying the bm3 dynamics doesn't still need to be fixed, but these look like nice auv3 plugins. I own AUFX:Push but not Korvpressor.
Another workaround for existing tracks might be to export/render/bounce anything that has the dynamics compressor causing delay, then trim off the delay from the beginning of the exported audio. Obviously this is no workaround for performance scenarios.
There shouldn’t be a “fix” that we need to do, like render this or buy another comp. The compressor included should work correctly. It’s a major component to the app that doesn’t work like before and totally messes up channels. I frequently have 2 comp’s per channel. That’s 50ms delay with no PDC!
I definitely like the idea of the look ahead, but IMHO this wasn’t phased in properly. Without PDC, this is a major breaking change because there’s no option to NOT do look ahead.
Unfortunately, BM3 is shelved for the time being for me. Makes me sad inside because I really just started enjoying the workflow and all these things I’ve been working on are in a bad way. It’s definitely noticeable. BM3 and Auxy are my go to apps when I have spare minutes to be creative. @mathieugarcia please consider some alternate way of configuring the compressor or implementing PDC.
@drez is right on the money, changes like this are becoming a little too common and breaking peoples workflow.
I understand the need to add features that may break things, but you need the preference or legacy versions for older projects.
Korvpressor is a compressor, i've never found an expander setting on it ?
@drez
You are right on so many points, but while you are shelving BM3 you might be equally not providing great insight to helping devs fix this and/or anything else (making BM3 better together). Please stick around at least in discussions.
Right, of course, this is bad and it needs to be fixed, and I too am surprised lookahead got hardcoded in without the option to turn it on or off. I'm just making some suggestions in case you'd rather not just leave bm3 alone until dynamics is fixed.
@5pinlink it is a compressor, and there's no mention of an expander setting, and I'm no expert when it comes to compressors, limiters, or expanders, but from looking at it and hearing the results, it seems like it can get an expansion effect? You tell me, haha. I very well could be totally wrong about Korvpressor, but at least AUFX:Push specifically states that it's a compressor/expander.
edit: oops... somehow missed that AUFX:Push is not auv3.
Let's all team up with our input and make the best internal Dynamics effect in BM3. It needs it. We need it.
I'd think lookahead would best be included as a control like threshold, ratio, etc, which goes from off to x amount of milliseconds, and there's got to be some way to prevent the delay.
Bleh, and it also sucks that dynamics is often included in the fx chain of banks from the store, and even those that we create and share with each other. Also just found a bug with the view state save that was introduced for fx chains: scroll down in the fx chain, close and reopen it, you see what you saw when you closed it, now scroll either direction a small amount, you're jumped back to the top.
By suggesting a workaround we're simply trying to take some of the heat out of this current issue.
Obviously a fix is what's needed, but if I can use a (free) AUv3 compressor instead and continue using BM3 then I can keep myself happy until 3.0.11 appears and let's me disable 'look ahead' compression.
(I can easily cope without an expander or true sidechain compression for the time being)
@mefisme said:
Oh heck yeah! I’m not “quitting”
I really love BM3! I just can’t use it like this. I’m sure it will get straightened out and will be happy to help. I’m not leaving this community. It’s great!
Ouch. Yeah, chains everywhere are borked. And yeah, that’s a crazy bug. I have some pretty long effects chains so it’s a bit frustrating.
I will take a look at it for sure, giving the option to disable or set the lookahead time is easy to do. Changing effects code definitely can impact older sessions; that said the limiter works better now, apart from the induced latency.