@jago said:
Does anyone know how I can get my 808s to play in key with my beat?
Tune it using the circle of fifths or use As and Es if they aren't sub heavy. They work wonders. A few ways are to change the root (base) key of the pad housing the 808. The other way is using the Tune modulation. Keep in mind you have to know the original pitch of your 808 in the first place or it will never tune. +1/-1 means semitones. Fine tune is in cents based off A440 increments.
Make a short pattern with your 808 where the hits can naturally decay to the end of the sample.
Play the root note of your tune in a similar frequency range to your 808, possibly with a sustained sound to be used as a diapason. (Test octave by octave until it fits; tip: a simple generated sine wave is the perfect sound for this job)
Now go to your sampler page and start fiddling with the coarse tune of your sample.
If you are out of tune, low frequency content will beat due to phase issues generated by the different notes being played. That beating will be your tuning meter.
Bounce the tune knob back and forth until you find the setting with the slowest beating.
Repeat, but fiddling with the fine tune knob until you won’t hear any beating at all.
Now your 808 is in tune.
Name it with the it is now for future reference
@5pinlink said:
I am interested in this.
What is beating ?
I think @mschenkel means the pulsation of the two waveforms would mean the sample is out of tune. Just like two guitar strings producing the same note. If one is flat or short, a beating (pulse) can be heard from the waves not matching.
My ears must be complete crap, there is no way i could have an 808 drum machine pattern playing with another beat layered on top and be able to differentiate any pulsing that was locked in sync, are we talking about audibly dropping out or what ?
@5pinlink Well I saw a YouTube video of DDS (HipHop producer) showed a technique were he pitches his 808 up 2 to 3 octaves to better hear the actual note. After adjusting he sets it back to the initial octave.
Yes, they absolutely have to be referring to the 808 kick, most likely used as the primary bass sound. Yeah, I feel like while the methods mentioned so far might work great, it’s a little difficult to grasp without an example video.
So this would be a processed 808 kick right, generally an unprocessed 808 is all sub and tuning would be pointless, so it must have some upper harmonics added by distortion or such ?
Genuinely interested here, never heard of a clean 808 kick needing tuning.
Well if you had a clean 808 kick with a long sustain/tail you’d want it to be in tune, even if it’s real low, cuz you want your bass to be in key with everything else. I’m assuming they’re going to be using keys mode to play the bass in different notes, and if they somehow got this 808 kick in some key other than C, then it’s not going to sound good unless they change the root note or adjust the tuning - but they’re here to find out how to do that in the first place. Right? I’ve been seeing several videos on Youtube talking about “tuning your 808” because 808 bass is real hot lately in hip hop production, and apparently people are just “finding” 808 kicks/basses around in random places without knowing what key it’s in. Perhaps by sampling a track where the kick has been pitched?
@5pinlink hahaha, I mean your sub kicks probably didn't change in pitch much, I'm assuming? maybe they didn't have much of a sustain/tail? my battle 05 submission had a punchy kick with the bottom rolled off, and the big bass was from a big long "808 kick" that changed in pitch and definitely had to be tuned properly to sound good. I mean it was already in tune, I didn't have to tune it, but yeah. if your songs sounded good, the tuning of your kicks probably didn't matter! =D
@mefisme it's not difficult or hard to understand if you have a background or base understanding of music and production, no. but if you want to make beats and you found a sound and you don't know how to find out what key it's in, then you probably need a bit more help. I'm assuming this thread wasn't created for lack of knowing where to find the course/fine tune knobs or the root key setting.
@ronji said: @mefisme it's not difficult or hard to understand if you have a background or base understanding of music and production, no. but if you want to make beats and you found a sound and you don't know how to find out what key it's in, then you probably need a bit more help. I'm assuming this thread wasn't created for lack of knowing where to find the course/fine tune knobs or the root key setting.
Totally didn’t mean for that to sound the way it did. I’m saying if somebody did a video it would help users a lot because it doesn’t have to be difficult to understand. Completely apologize if it came off like I was being some sort of jerk.
I’m building a tuner for everyone that will help tremendously.
@5pinlink said:
So everything i was told about sub kicks is wrong then, i was always told when i was younger that sub kicks have no dominant key.
I can understand if its distorted or played though.
Im completely lost now to be honest, i wonder if all my kicks were out of key and im too crap to have noticed lol.
All kicks are tunable to a key regardless of sound type. There is no dominant key so you weren’t told wrong. There are just certain keys that work for better for drums. Fourths and fifths of any root key specifically. This also helps your mixes. If you start with an instrument and your song is in a specific key. You can tune your drums to the fifths or fourths of the root to keep them nice in the frequency spec. It's the same situation if reversed.
I know kicks are tunable, my point was i have never tuned to a scale to make them fit, most drum sounds have a standard tuning that work with anything, most older drum machines didnt even include tuning on the kick (808)
@5pinlink said:
I know kicks are tunable, my point was i have never tuned to a scale to make them fit, most drum sounds have a standard tuning that work with anything, most older drum machines didnt even include tuning on the kick (808)
I didn’t imply you didn’t. Everything I say is info for all friend!
You should definitely try tuning to scale per song then if you have never done this. It tightens a lot of stuff up. Less effects, less EQing, etc, and overtone issues later in mix.
I think we need to distinguish the point that in this case the kick is big and extended and is like any other bass sound, it’s used melodically, and should be tuned. You can play a scale with an 808 bass sound, but it has to be in tune or it won’t work. Right?
@ronji said:
I think we need to distinguish the point that in this case the kick is big and extended and is like any other bass sound, it’s used melodically, and should be tuned. You can play a scale with an 808 bass sound, but it has to be in tune or it won’t work. Right?
This applies to really any sample stretched, sustained, etc. Warping is supposed to do this if you know the samples BPM/conversion. But cutting anything short or adding to that sample with copy paste will change the fundamental pitch if warping.
@ronji said:
I think we need to distinguish the point that in this case the kick is big and extended and is like any other bass sound, it’s used melodically, and should be tuned. You can play a scale with an 808 bass sound, but it has to be in tune or it won’t work. Right?
That is why i asked if the original poster meant just the kick when he said 808s.
Right now a lot of assumption in this thread, Im sure he means using a kick tuned/mapped/played, but we dont actually know.
A. The more basic, short tail, transient 'thud' sound. This sound is used rhythmically B. The super extended 'boooom' referred to as 808 bass (basically a sine wave with a short pitch envelope). This sound is used melodically.
Therefore there are also two types of 808 tuning:
A. tuning the rhythmic kick and other drum sounds, which is lovely if you have the technical knowledge/inclination... but not essential B. tuning the 808 bass (which is usually multi-sampled) so that a melody can be played in the bass.
I'm sure many of you knew all this already, but it helps this discussion is we use better terminology, such as
808 kick
808 bass
Percussion tuning
Bass tuning
P.s. I recommend watching the 808 documentary on Netflix
@tk32 said:
It's easy to see how this thread got mixed up.
There are 2 types of 808 kick:
A. The more basic, short tail, transient 'thud' sound. This sound is used rhythmically B. The super extended 'boooom' referred to as 808 bass (basically a sine wave with a short pitch envelope). This sound is used melodically.
Therefore there are also two types of 808 tuning:
A. tuning the rhythmic kick and other drum sounds, which is lovely if you have the technical knowledge/inclination... but not essential B. tuning the 808 bass (which is usually multi-sampled) so that a melody can be played in the bass.
I'm sure many of you knew all this already, but it helps this discussion is we use better terminology, such as
808 kick
808 bass
Percussion tuning
Bass tuning
P.s. I recommend watching the 808 documentary on Netflix
Thank you. I knew I'd be bad at this when the conversation is active. Convos move too fast in my head
Comments
Tune it using the circle of fifths or use As and Es if they aren't sub heavy. They work wonders. A few ways are to change the root (base) key of the pad housing the 808. The other way is using the Tune modulation. Keep in mind you have to know the original pitch of your 808 in the first place or it will never tune. +1/-1 means semitones. Fine tune is in cents based off A440 increments.
By 808 this means 808 kick drum right ?
Make a short pattern with your 808 where the hits can naturally decay to the end of the sample.
Play the root note of your tune in a similar frequency range to your 808, possibly with a sustained sound to be used as a diapason. (Test octave by octave until it fits; tip: a simple generated sine wave is the perfect sound for this job)
Now go to your sampler page and start fiddling with the coarse tune of your sample.
If you are out of tune, low frequency content will beat due to phase issues generated by the different notes being played. That beating will be your tuning meter.
Bounce the tune knob back and forth until you find the setting with the slowest beating.
Repeat, but fiddling with the fine tune knob until you won’t hear any beating at all.
Now your 808 is in tune.
Name it with the it is now for future reference
I am interested in this.
What is beating ?
I think @mschenkel means the pulsation of the two waveforms would mean the sample is out of tune. Just like two guitar strings producing the same note. If one is flat or short, a beating (pulse) can be heard from the waves not matching.
My ears must be complete crap, there is no way i could have an 808 drum machine pattern playing with another beat layered on top and be able to differentiate any pulsing that was locked in sync, are we talking about audibly dropping out or what ?
@5pinlink Well I saw a YouTube video of DDS (HipHop producer) showed a technique were he pitches his 808 up 2 to 3 octaves to better hear the actual note. After adjusting he sets it back to the initial octave.
So my original question is back in play then, does 808 just mean the kick drum (sorry im old, 808 to me means a drum machine by Roland)
Yes, they absolutely have to be referring to the 808 kick, most likely used as the primary bass sound. Yeah, I feel like while the methods mentioned so far might work great, it’s a little difficult to grasp without an example video.
So this would be a processed 808 kick right, generally an unprocessed 808 is all sub and tuning would be pointless, so it must have some upper harmonics added by distortion or such ?
Genuinely interested here, never heard of a clean 808 kick needing tuning.
Well if you had a clean 808 kick with a long sustain/tail you’d want it to be in tune, even if it’s real low, cuz you want your bass to be in key with everything else. I’m assuming they’re going to be using keys mode to play the bass in different notes, and if they somehow got this 808 kick in some key other than C, then it’s not going to sound good unless they change the root note or adjust the tuning - but they’re here to find out how to do that in the first place. Right? I’ve been seeing several videos on Youtube talking about “tuning your 808” because 808 bass is real hot lately in hip hop production, and apparently people are just “finding” 808 kicks/basses around in random places without knowing what key it’s in. Perhaps by sampling a track where the kick has been pitched?
Maybe we need a crash course video on tuning in general. This is not difficult or hard to understand tuning.
So everything i was told about sub kicks is wrong then, i was always told when i was younger that sub kicks have no dominant key.
I can understand if its distorted or played though.
Im completely lost now to be honest, i wonder if all my kicks were out of key and im too crap to have noticed lol.
@5pinlink as long as they kick like a mule tho...
@5pinlink hahaha, I mean your sub kicks probably didn't change in pitch much, I'm assuming? maybe they didn't have much of a sustain/tail? my battle 05 submission had a punchy kick with the bottom rolled off, and the big bass was from a big long "808 kick" that changed in pitch and definitely had to be tuned properly to sound good. I mean it was already in tune, I didn't have to tune it, but yeah. if your songs sounded good, the tuning of your kicks probably didn't matter! =D
@mefisme it's not difficult or hard to understand if you have a background or base understanding of music and production, no. but if you want to make beats and you found a sound and you don't know how to find out what key it's in, then you probably need a bit more help. I'm assuming this thread wasn't created for lack of knowing where to find the course/fine tune knobs or the root key setting.
Totally didn’t mean for that to sound the way it did. I’m saying if somebody did a video it would help users a lot because it doesn’t have to be difficult to understand. Completely apologize if it came off like I was being some sort of jerk.
I’m building a tuner for everyone that will help tremendously.
All kicks are tunable to a key regardless of sound type. There is no dominant key so you weren’t told wrong. There are just certain keys that work for better for drums. Fourths and fifths of any root key specifically. This also helps your mixes. If you start with an instrument and your song is in a specific key. You can tune your drums to the fifths or fourths of the root to keep them nice in the frequency spec. It's the same situation if reversed.
I know kicks are tunable, my point was i have never tuned to a scale to make them fit, most drum sounds have a standard tuning that work with anything, most older drum machines didnt even include tuning on the kick (808)
I didn’t imply you didn’t. Everything I say is info for all friend!
You should definitely try tuning to scale per song then if you have never done this. It tightens a lot of stuff up. Less effects, less EQing, etc, and overtone issues later in mix.
I think we need to distinguish the point that in this case the kick is big and extended and is like any other bass sound, it’s used melodically, and should be tuned. You can play a scale with an 808 bass sound, but it has to be in tune or it won’t work. Right?
Correct.
This applies to really any sample stretched, sustained, etc. Warping is supposed to do this if you know the samples BPM/conversion. But cutting anything short or adding to that sample with copy paste will change the fundamental pitch if warping.
That is why i asked if the original poster meant just the kick when he said 808s.
Right now a lot of assumption in this thread, Im sure he means using a kick tuned/mapped/played, but we dont actually know.
True, all assumption until @jago comes back for their second post
Whole thread turned into a discussion itself. Lol.
FYI i have a perfect 808 kick output from spice, if needs be ill tune it to C and upload it
It's easy to see how this thread got mixed up.
There are 2 types of 808 kick:
Therefore there are also two types of 808 tuning:
I'm sure many of you knew all this already, but it helps this discussion is we use better terminology, such as
P.s. I recommend watching the 808 documentary on Netflix
Sweet.
Educated!
Thank you. I knew I'd be bad at this when the conversation is active. Convos move too fast in my head