@bleep said:
Anyway, the @blueveek stuff seem to be top notch. I do wonder where that leaves Intua, though. Temporary quick fixes becoming the permanent solution is not optimal, but the last post here hints that more proper fixes will be in place, too. Nice as it is to have fixes, the best for BM3 would be if new buyers of the app would not immediately be met with suggestions to also get 3rd party fixes for the app.
I don't believe there is any quick fix that has become a permanent solution ever with B3, maybe i missed it ?
I can tell you exactly where it leaves Intua, in the exact same place they where the very second before @blueveek wrote anything, he knows that some of his plugins are temporary fixes for what some users see as issues, that may not have been Intuas view, they took a change of direction with MIDI FX, turns out that the direction they took was not received well by everybody, but also opened up a whole new way of doing certain things for others.
I don't think any new buyers of the app are immediately met with suggestions to get 3rd party fixes for the app, indeed these plugins are not even available yet ?
Doesn't take long to turn a thread from excitement to doom and gloom nowadays does it.
When I first saw the Scene mode I was surprised it didn’t have a linear playback capability. It would make arrangement modifications and previews very easy. It lacks a way to arrange over time left to right and then playback the sequence all the way through. While this can be done on the timeline it would be faster and easier from Scenes mode.
That's really cool but I would of course be much more for a proper solution - make pattern triggers in scene mode midi controllable and recordable. Latch mode would be a really nice plus. In other words - the ableton live's way.
So many producers and live performers are already familiar and happy with this feature, that I believe this would be a game-changer not only for BM3 but the whole iOS music making world.
Maybe an explanation why is it so cool for people not familiar with it. Good example is AKAI APC controller which is heavily used for live performances together with Ableton. The pads grid is automatically assigned to scenes/tracks matrix, you can even scroll top/bottom and left/right and a red square in ableton shows you which part you currently control by the controller. Colored LEDs of the pads on the controller matches color coding of the clips in Live,which helps a lot for navigation and for not having to look at the screen.
Every "clip" (mostly a pattern in BM3 world) can have various setting for playback (loop, one shot,...) and timing (loop only 2 times) etc... You can perform a dj set with this by loading whole songs as clips, or make a finger drumming kit. Or combine it, as you're still triggering the same pads on the controller and using same scene mode screen.
Of course, everything you trigger can be recorded, which opens a whole new more fun way for writing songs too.
BM3 is no so far away from this. I would love to have this combo - BM3 alone for creating songs on the go, and a controller for "desktop" way of working and live performance.
@skrat said:
Maybe an explanation why is it so cool for people not familiar with it. Good example is AKAI APC controller which is heavily used for live performances together with Ableton. The pads grid is automatically assigned to scenes/tracks matrix, you can even scroll top/bottom and left/right and a red square in ableton shows you which part you currently control by the controller. Colored LEDs of the pads on the controller matches color coding of the clips in Live,which helps a lot for navigation and for not having to look at the screen.
Every "clip" (mostly a pattern in BM3 world) can have various setting for playback (loop, one shot,...) and timing (loop only 2 times) etc... You can perform a dj set with this by loading whole songs as clips, or make a finger drumming kit. Or combine it, as you're still triggering the same pads on the controller and using same scene mode screen.
Of course, everything you trigger can be recorded, which opens a whole new more fun way for writing songs too.
BM3 is no so far away from this. I would love to have this combo - BM3 alone for creating songs on the go, and a controller for "desktop" way of working and live performance.
There will be a full video when it is released
I personally (so blame me) asked him to delay the release a while so i could bomb test it further (and think up a name, and argue about icons lol)
Software pad to hardware pad color matching is something we have spoken about trying to get a solution working for (We being me being a pain asking for stuff, there is no we developing, so dont think im trying to grab any credit, im not)
Contextual dials/sliders/buttons is pretty much down to B3, there is only so much a 3rd party developer can do.
@winconway said:
There will be a full video when it is released
I personally (so blame me) asked him to delay the release a while so i could bomb test it further (and think up a name, and argue about icons lol)
Software pad to hardware pad color matching is something we have spoken about trying to get a solution working for (We being me being a pain asking for stuff, there is no we developing, so dont think im trying to grab any credit, im not)
Contextual dials/sliders/buttons is pretty much down to B3, there is only so much a 3rd party developer can do.
With color coding I am afraid there is no way for 3rd party solution too as I doubt BM3 sends colors currently via MIDI....?
Of course I like this solution and it will be still better than the nothing we have now. But I am a little afraid of using pads as a clip triggers as they're simply not a good UI for that purpose:
no visual feedback for playback position within pattern/clip
no visual feedback about notes / waveform of the clip
no color coding as we're always focused on single bank
That also means we need to put everything in one bank or we would need to switch between tracks = less organized
no way to hide left bar so even if you can use 64 pads view, the buttons are smaller (on my 2017 ipad I can fit around 70 clips in one screen, scrolling is more natural on scene mode)...
That said, I really love when someone finds a way around some limitations. But I would be really sad if Intua will stay feeling comfortable with this workaround instead of improving on currently very nice and usable scene mode. We need just just introducing latch mode (and maybe one shot mode) and ability to send and receive midi. This will enable whole new world of usages for BM3. Ability to scroll active area with the controller (highlighted by the "red rectangle") and to switch to active track to control its macros would be an awesome bonus...
I believe it's not easy, but still it's not THAT much, given this will be all the original functionality thanks to which Ableton live is so popular nowadays.
Please Intua, keep on improving here. I believe this is worth the effort. If money is the problem, make it a paid new feature (I like how e.g. xequencer developer does it). I believe once DJs/producers currently using laptop + live + APC will see this in action, they will either switch immediately, or start seriously considering it. It will be still cheap compared to Live, and much more fun and portable with iPad.
Visual feedback for clips, why ?
I always use my ears in Launchpad etc, never found any use at all for that rotating stuff.
No visual feedback about waveform, just open the sampler view.
No color coding because of single bank ? each pad can have its own color in B3.
What is wrong with putting everything in one bank for clip launching ? It makes perfect sense to me, so each bank is its own individual launchpad style set of pads.
I use 64 pads on my Mini 2 and have no issues even triggering the mini pads in sampler view.
Hoping scenes mode becomes Ableton Live, may take a long time, first instance it was designed to replicate Maschines scene mode, which is nothing like Ableton Live, second instance, B3s basic feature set is lacking right now in terms of DAW usage itself, and anybody who follows the social networks around B3 know that the majority of its user base wants arranger/piano roll/mixer updates, the rest is all niche subset features.
The upcoming plugin is what it is, that is its a plugin for people who want it, you may be better served using Launchpad/Remixlive or buying a Surface and using Live itself, I doubt the feature set you want will be available any time soon.
@winconway said:
Visual feedback for clips, why ?
I always use my ears in Launchpad etc, never found any use at all for that rotating stuff.
Because you can see the current position of the clip...? Often you have one longer clip which defines the length of the scene, and you know that you have to switch scene or bring new sound. Yes, you can use your ears, but this is more like a cue point for djs or thise less dense areas on a vinyl which are visible and that helps you to see that "drop" (how I hate this word) is coming. It's a visual aid to help you better remember what's going on in your love set.
No visual feedback about waveform, just open the sampler view.
Switching screens on a live performance is a definitive no-go. While performing, you want to use a physical controller primarily and the screen serves only as a visual aid and touch it only in special cases.
No color coding because of single bank ? each pad can have its own color in B3.
Oh, I never tried it and never thought it's possible That's actually very nice!
What is wrong with putting everything in one bank for clip launching ? It makes perfect sense to me, so each bank is its own individual launchpad style set of pads.
I am not sure if you understand how performing live set from ableton via e.g. APC works. You usually use e.g. 8 tracks (8 banks in BM3) because that's the number of tracks on the controller. You split them on eg drums, percussions, bass, lead, pad, fxes, voice and second lead. You can then use faders, mute, solo or arm record (to record e.g. a keyboard riff) per every track. This all can be creatively used during the performance, just as DJ can do miracles with just two channels, crossfader and EQS. This is a bit similar but 4x and on steroids
Without separate tracks, you loose all of these (but I believe some workarounds may be possible, I already have some ideas).
I use 64 pads on my Mini 2 and have no issues even triggering the mini pads in sampler view.
I am not saying it's impossible, only that they're simply smaller and we're not using all the screen real estate here.
Hoping scenes mode becomes Ableton Live, may take a long time, first instance it was designed to replicate Maschines scene mode, which is nothing like Ableton Live, second instance, B3s basic feature set is lacking right now in terms of DAW usage itself, and anybody who follows the social networks around B3 know that the majority of its user base wants arranger/piano roll/mixer updates, the rest is all niche subset features.
I completely understand. I am a software developer myself and I know things are always way-way harder than it may seem, even in the wildest dream of a non-insider. Also I believe priorities are different than I want them to be (although I still wait for fixing my first bug revealed in BM3 - first note in a loop gets muted when sample in hold mode - to be solved 😄)
The upcoming plugin is what it is, that is its a plugin for people who want it, you may be better served using Launchpad/Remixlive or buying a Surface and using Live itself, I doubt the feature set you want will be available any time soon.
I tried all of these options, trust me 😄 currently I am better off with Mac + live combo but the idea of using BM3 exclusively for creating AND performing live is still haunting my dreams.
That said, I believe this solution will be a step forward and I am looking forward for it. That's only a frustration speaking. To me, BM3 is by far the best all-in-one solution on iOS. It's a showcase of what is already possible. Yet, the dedicated users have zero clue of the future of the product and the very long silence followed by two minor (still warmly welcomed) updates helped only a little. We don't even know if Intua struggles (with finances, developers, technical debt in the code..,?) or they're secretive because they are cooking some big new thing behind the scenes? It's probably too hard to swallow the fact we'll be depended on community workarounds instead of seeing the product blooming.
If B3 was more like live, I wouldn't be using it, Live has consistently mived further and further away from "Samplist" with each new version, B3 is "Samplist" at its core, a fact that seems strange consudering how few "Samplists" seem to be using B3 LOL.
Comments
I don't believe there is any quick fix that has become a permanent solution ever with B3, maybe i missed it ?
I can tell you exactly where it leaves Intua, in the exact same place they where the very second before @blueveek wrote anything, he knows that some of his plugins are temporary fixes for what some users see as issues, that may not have been Intuas view, they took a change of direction with MIDI FX, turns out that the direction they took was not received well by everybody, but also opened up a whole new way of doing certain things for others.
I don't think any new buyers of the app are immediately met with suggestions to get 3rd party fixes for the app, indeed these plugins are not even available yet ?
Doesn't take long to turn a thread from excitement to doom and gloom nowadays does it.
Hehe it was. Kind of wishing I did not use it as a monicker now but eh whuevuh
Haha. I hadn’t realised that either. I always miss the jokes lol
I would buy that yesterday!
When I first saw the Scene mode I was surprised it didn’t have a linear playback capability. It would make arrangement modifications and previews very easy. It lacks a way to arrange over time left to right and then playback the sequence all the way through. While this can be done on the timeline it would be faster and easier from Scenes mode.
Scene chaining like this?
The track H1 contain the midi notes to trigger the scene !
That's cool @jeezs . Can't believe I've never thought of trying it this way!
Would you mind if I wrote this into my book as one of the 'recipes'?
That's really cool but I would of course be much more for a proper solution - make pattern triggers in scene mode midi controllable and recordable. Latch mode would be a really nice plus. In other words - the ableton live's way.
So many producers and live performers are already familiar and happy with this feature, that I believe this would be a game-changer not only for BM3 but the whole iOS music making world.
Maybe an explanation why is it so cool for people not familiar with it. Good example is AKAI APC controller which is heavily used for live performances together with Ableton. The pads grid is automatically assigned to scenes/tracks matrix, you can even scroll top/bottom and left/right and a red square in ableton shows you which part you currently control by the controller. Colored LEDs of the pads on the controller matches color coding of the clips in Live,which helps a lot for navigation and for not having to look at the screen.
Every "clip" (mostly a pattern in BM3 world) can have various setting for playback (loop, one shot,...) and timing (loop only 2 times) etc... You can perform a dj set with this by loading whole songs as clips, or make a finger drumming kit. Or combine it, as you're still triggering the same pads on the controller and using same scene mode screen.
Of course, everything you trigger can be recorded, which opens a whole new more fun way for writing songs too.
BM3 is no so far away from this. I would love to have this combo - BM3 alone for creating songs on the go, and a controller for "desktop" way of working and live performance.
For sure @tk32, you can write this in your book
If you need more infos, precisions or else PM when you want.
There will be a full video when it is released
I personally (so blame me) asked him to delay the release a while so i could bomb test it further (and think up a name, and argue about icons lol)
Software pad to hardware pad color matching is something we have spoken about trying to get a solution working for (We being me being a pain asking for stuff, there is no we developing, so dont think im trying to grab any credit, im not)
Contextual dials/sliders/buttons is pretty much down to B3, there is only so much a 3rd party developer can do.
Thank you, Jeezs!
@jeezs , well, I thought I knew what you did there...but I don’t, lol.
What MIDI notes trigger scenes and where do I put them?
Thanks
With color coding I am afraid there is no way for 3rd party solution too as I doubt BM3 sends colors currently via MIDI....?
Of course I like this solution and it will be still better than the nothing we have now. But I am a little afraid of using pads as a clip triggers as they're simply not a good UI for that purpose:
That said, I really love when someone finds a way around some limitations. But I would be really sad if Intua will stay feeling comfortable with this workaround instead of improving on currently very nice and usable scene mode. We need just just introducing latch mode (and maybe one shot mode) and ability to send and receive midi. This will enable whole new world of usages for BM3. Ability to scroll active area with the controller (highlighted by the "red rectangle") and to switch to active track to control its macros would be an awesome bonus...
I believe it's not easy, but still it's not THAT much, given this will be all the original functionality thanks to which Ableton live is so popular nowadays.
Please Intua, keep on improving here. I believe this is worth the effort. If money is the problem, make it a paid new feature (I like how e.g. xequencer developer does it). I believe once DJs/producers currently using laptop + live + APC will see this in action, they will either switch immediately, or start seriously considering it. It will be still cheap compared to Live, and much more fun and portable with iPad.
Visual feedback for clips, why ?
I always use my ears in Launchpad etc, never found any use at all for that rotating stuff.
No visual feedback about waveform, just open the sampler view.
No color coding because of single bank ? each pad can have its own color in B3.
What is wrong with putting everything in one bank for clip launching ? It makes perfect sense to me, so each bank is its own individual launchpad style set of pads.
I use 64 pads on my Mini 2 and have no issues even triggering the mini pads in sampler view.
Hoping scenes mode becomes Ableton Live, may take a long time, first instance it was designed to replicate Maschines scene mode, which is nothing like Ableton Live, second instance, B3s basic feature set is lacking right now in terms of DAW usage itself, and anybody who follows the social networks around B3 know that the majority of its user base wants arranger/piano roll/mixer updates, the rest is all niche subset features.
The upcoming plugin is what it is, that is its a plugin for people who want it, you may be better served using Launchpad/Remixlive or buying a Surface and using Live itself, I doubt the feature set you want will be available any time soon.
Because you can see the current position of the clip...? Often you have one longer clip which defines the length of the scene, and you know that you have to switch scene or bring new sound. Yes, you can use your ears, but this is more like a cue point for djs or thise less dense areas on a vinyl which are visible and that helps you to see that "drop" (how I hate this word) is coming. It's a visual aid to help you better remember what's going on in your love set.
Switching screens on a live performance is a definitive no-go. While performing, you want to use a physical controller primarily and the screen serves only as a visual aid and touch it only in special cases.
Oh, I never tried it and never thought it's possible
That's actually very nice!
I am not sure if you understand how performing live set from ableton via e.g. APC works. You usually use e.g. 8 tracks (8 banks in BM3) because that's the number of tracks on the controller. You split them on eg drums, percussions, bass, lead, pad, fxes, voice and second lead. You can then use faders, mute, solo or arm record (to record e.g. a keyboard riff) per every track. This all can be creatively used during the performance, just as DJ can do miracles with just two channels, crossfader and EQS. This is a bit similar but 4x and on steroids
Without separate tracks, you loose all of these (but I believe some workarounds may be possible, I already have some ideas).
I am not saying it's impossible, only that they're simply smaller and we're not using all the screen real estate here.
I completely understand. I am a software developer myself and I know things are always way-way harder than it may seem, even in the wildest dream of a non-insider. Also I believe priorities are different than I want them to be (although I still wait for fixing my first bug revealed in BM3 - first note in a loop gets muted when sample in hold mode - to be solved 😄)
I tried all of these options, trust me 😄 currently I am better off with Mac + live combo but the idea of using BM3 exclusively for creating AND performing live is still haunting my dreams.
That said, I believe this solution will be a step forward and I am looking forward for it. That's only a frustration speaking. To me, BM3 is by far the best all-in-one solution on iOS. It's a showcase of what is already possible. Yet, the dedicated users have zero clue of the future of the product and the very long silence followed by two minor (still warmly welcomed) updates helped only a little. We don't even know if Intua struggles (with finances, developers, technical debt in the code..,?) or they're secretive because they are cooking some big new thing behind the scenes? It's probably too hard to swallow the fact we'll be depended on community workarounds instead of seeing the product blooming.
@mathieugarcia is working on an update for Beatmaker 3.
That is as clear as it gets, beyond that you dont need to know anything else about Intua
As for the rest, like you say, you should stick to Mac+Live, youhave requirements that are beyond what will be available.
Wish I had a penny for every time I've read the words "please make BM3 more like Ableton" over the last 18 months
I wonder if the same people also post on Ableton forums asking for an ipad version of Live?
If B3 was more like live, I wouldn't be using it, Live has consistently mived further and further away from "Samplist" with each new version, B3 is "Samplist" at its core, a fact that seems strange consudering how few "Samplists" seem to be using B3 LOL.