'Always On Top' animoog keys option.

edited September 2017 in Feature Requests
Been looking at a few other apps (modstep, model 15... And genome on vids...).

Overall I find BM3 way more intuitive than modstep and genome (from vids) but looking at different ios UI's there are definitly some solid ui/workflow tricks out there to be stolen ;)

Number one thing that frustrates me with BM3 is the continuous view/Windows switching and how each window is very exclusive of each other in terms of functions. The app requires a lot of page switching which can make it feel pretty clunky/slow.

Biggest workflow improvement for me would be a slide up keyboard that was like an overlay on top of the normal UI. Like Model 15 and Genome.

Something with small footprint like the animoog keyboard on Model 15.

Drag up from 'bottom right' of screen to make it appear.

When it's active the main/normal BM3 ui becomes scrollable in background with two fingers (like Model 15). As soon as you hide the keys again the main UI snaps back to centre/normal view.

This way you could have keys onscreen whilst also doing a bunch of other stuff with pads/pads edit/scenes/pattern/sequencer etc etc.. Would be HUGE workflow streamline boost.

The pop up keyboard would have small button to switch between 'pitch/plugin' and 'pads' and a small re-sampling button (with long press pop-up window for sync/bars option etc).

@5pinlink This feels like potentially a really beneficial request, if you're onboard maybe you could make one of your 'what the future looks like' vids ;)


  • This would be amazing!
  • Yeah would be a great workflow refinement for sure... Hopefully we'll see it at some point!
  • edited September 2017

    Doesn't the new keyboard button sort of acomplish this, i know it is still switching to the keyboard mode rather than sliding in, but it can be clicked from anywhere.

    (No mock ups from me for a week or something, fried Macbook and all my design software is Mac)

  • @5pinlink said:
    Doesn't the new keyboard button sort of acomplish this, i know it is still switching to the keyboard mode rather than sliding in, but it can be clicked from anywhere.

    IMO it does not accomplish the same thing. Having it on the mixer view would be stellar, for example.

  • edited September 2017
    @5pinlink the new keyboard button will be great but that's still all about switching views.

    Option for Slide-up keyboard on top of the UI would make things much more similar to always having a hardware controller keyboard connected, which is a 100% better BM3 experience and MUCH closer to most people's main desktop/laptop Daw setup/workflow :)
  • I have never seen a single DAW that has a slide up keyboard, I am probably misunderstanding the request.

  • edited September 2017
    What I mean is that when you work on your main home daw you don't have to switch views to play keys/pads/plugins. You use your master midi keyboard (or Push/Maschine pads etc) which is constantly to hand ;) its there in front of you and active no matter what you're doing in your daw on the screen. Half the time I use midi keys in my daw I don't have the keys plugin UI on screen...I'll often be in piano roll or just regular sequencer view or ableton scenes etc.

    Slide-up keyboard would offer that same workflow convenience without always needing to have a midi keyboard connected :) It would improve standalone workflow/accessibility tenfold ;)
  • I like the way Cubasis works but it's almost the same as BM3 is today.
    The only difference is that Cubasis doesn't hide what's behind.

    I'm also personally a bit allergic to 'swipe gestures' for bringing in/out UI elements, i prefer 'toggles & buttons'.

    I do like the small keys that are present in the pad-editor and those could be optionally handy in the sequencer, mixer and pattern-edit as well but they would most likely loose the y-axis velocity option since the keys would be to 'short'.

    It's all about how one works with BM3. I personally spend most of my time in Pad/Peform-View and Pad/Sample-Edit views and here it would be handy to have options as to when BM3 actually creates a new pattern when pressing record and also 'Track Folders' is something I would love to see. This (ie. Track Folders) could already be done by giving the arranger an option to view each pad as a separate track, think 'Folder Tracks'. The 'Mixer' already does this when you show the channel for each pad, but that 'feature' is missing in the arranger...

  • edited September 2017
    @samu Yeh it wouldn't be a big benefit for ALL users but for a lot of people it would be huge.. Try playing a chord on the sample edit page keyboard or the piano roll/pattern editor keyboard or even recording semi complex monophonic parts with them ;) The sample edit keyboard doesn't even scroll octaves IIRC?

    The implementation on Model 15 is perfect imo. Keyboard is there if you want it, gone if you don't :)

    If people didn't want to use it then they just never swipe it in to existence in their session... User definable layout/workflows options are almost always a good thing when it comes to Daws ;)

    Edit - I'm also not huge fan of swipe gestures. The new update has keys button in left column. Perhaps single click on that takes you to keys page. Double click gives you the overlay keys?
  • edited September 2017
    While I'm not opposed to unobtrusive things I don't need as long as they don't get in my way, I personally find swipe up/down/left/right functions to be the devil. They manage to interrupt my workflow at the worst possible times. Anyone who's worked with a slide over app has brought it to the foreground too unintentionally many times and even the little AB sidebar things are really annoying. In touch intensive apps such as Samplr it can be a constant battle and even limit possibilities in some cases. Also, gonna be fighting with the iOS control centre for that swipe up functionality. Double the bullshit!

    Sorry, I don't like to share negative opinions in general and I can see how a mobile OS DAW could benefit from something like this, but the prospect of a slide up UI element that keeps showing its head when it's not wanted or needed (I work with hardware MIDI controllers) sent a cold shiver down my spine.

    Of course if there was a global toggle in settings for 'disable swipe up keyboard' then sure, knock yourselves out.
  • @OscarSouth maybe you missed my edit in the last post ;) Could be a double tap to open it, double tap to close :)
  • @Heyez maybe I did! Also check out my own edit (addition on the bottom of my post).
  • Yeah an enable/disable option in settings makes sense, user configurabiltiy is good :)
  • @OscarSouth for the most part I plan to encorporate BM3 in to a hardware setup too like you mention (overlay keyboard not being needed when I have a controller/sequencer linked etc).

    But for random sofa/bed/travelling sessions (or people without hardware) I'd find it a big workflow improvement ;)
  • @Heyez said:
    @samu Yeh it wouldn't be a big benefit for ALL users but for a lot of people it would be huge.. Try playing a chord on the sample edit page keyboard or the piano roll/pattern editor keyboard or even recording semi complex monophonic parts with them ;) The sample edit keyboard doesn't even scroll octaves IIRC?

    That's true, changing the 'pad key' is the only way for now to change the octave.
    I have requested to have the 'Plug-In Sampler/Keyboard' available for 'Sampler Instruments' as well making playing and re-sampling a lot smoother :)

  • edited September 2017

    Disable in options would be great, here is a very current example of why swipe in pisses me off....
    Recently Maschone software got updated to support touchscreens, it now works beautifully with touch, better than most other desktop apps, however...
    Try adjusting the end point of a sample, that marker is on the right hand side of the screen, and every time you try to move it, out pops that POS swipe out windows panel for settings, no way to adjust sample end point.
    Extreme example yes, but also why i dislike (PERSONALLY MIND YOU) any kind of swipe (Dont even get me started on the evils of pinch zooming)

  • Swipe was just the first thing I suggested cos it seems to work well in Model 15. I also generally dislike 'swipe in from outside screen' for stuff really tho so yeah, something like 'double tap on the left-hand column keys icon' would be better ;)
  • I have to be honest, i am a little lost on this over what is coming in 3.0.3.

    @drez said it would be good to have in mixer view, but if you select something in mixer view, then click the new keyboard button the keyboard is on screen for what you selected, if you select something in the pattern view then click the new keyboard button the keyboard is on screen for whatever you selectedq, In the arranger where you cant actually select individual instruments because there are no individual tracks yet, click the kyboard button and the currently selected pads keyboard will appear.

    Is the request so that you dont have to press a button to open it and an x to close it ?
    Just seems like a swipe vs button thing or full screen vs overlay thing.
    If it is swipe vs button i personally prefer button.
    If it is full screen vs overlay i prefer full screen because it gives you the macros and double keyboard option.

    I dont get the screen switching argument at all...
    1 Press a button, it changes screen to xxx, full screen all options, press close it returns to where you were.
    2 Press a button, some UI slides out, obscures the screen you are on, not full screen so limited options, press close for it to slide away.

    1 is infinitely more preferable to me personally (And i will reiterate again, this is just my own personal, not particularly that well informed opinion)

  • Everyone uses things differently. Sounds like it would be of no benefit to your workflow.

    Its an option that would constantly smooth my BM3 ride out tho. Being able to do more than one thing in one view and not have to switch views as much. Would be a massive improvement for me personally....
  • @5pinlink maybe I made it sound like I'd use the overlay keys exclusively. Nah, I'd still use the main keys view a lot of the time.

    But if for instance I had a 3 minute song structured and wanted to add some improv notes and chords or beats from a kit at 45 secs, 125 secs and 168 secs along the timeline. And while I'm doing it I also decide to do some stuff in other parts of the song... Currently I've gotta flick back and forth between sequencer view and keys view EVERY time I want to change my start point on the timeline. Tee-deee-ous ;) with an overlay keys along bottom of screen I can navigate the timeline and have keys there too. Make a ton of improv changes fast without leaving the page.

    There are a whole bunch of scenarios like this (Scenes is a big one...) that are no issue when you have a midi controller attached but total vibe killer without..
  • edited September 2017

    To be honest, wouldn't this be better as an app ?

    Try and get a developer to make a $5 universal app that loops its MIDI back in to any other app, swipe up to open it.

    Obviously they would have a much much larger userbase than just BM (Seriously who chose that name lol)

    Would be a killer unique app i think.

    For the record, i dont want this feature, but will do you a mock when i get the crapbook back.

  • I thought we were all agreed on hating the idea of 'swipe to open' and were all opting for a button?

    3rd party wouldn't work anyway except on apps where all pages/views already have a vertical scroll.

    And you'd have to configure the midi and etc etc.

    3rd party sounds like searching for new and unnecessary problems just for the sake of it instead of taking the more obvious/refined solution and having it as an internal BM3 option?
  • Ok my mistake ;)

  • :) don't sweat about the mock-up I mentioned dude. Cool of you to offer but if it's not a feature you're in to then its kind of a waste of your time!

    I'll write it out better than I did in this thread and mail it to intua with couple other ideas I've been meaning to get in contact about.
  • Yeah, I want the option of a mini version of a keyboard on every page because I play notes all the time. If I'm in the mixer view I want to be able to play notes so I can see where it fits in the mix. I play the keyboard all the time along with patterns/songs to improv or whatever. I want to be able to hop all over the app and still have that keyboard there. Or not. My option. I dont always need a full size keyboard. If I do, I'll go to the appropriate page. But when I have a physical keyboard at my desk, it doesn't disappear when I hop around ableton. It's always there. I need a similar option when all I have is an iPad and BM. A Popup keyboard seems like a reasonable alternative.

  • edited September 2017

    Just wanted to say, brilliant thread.. perfectly describes a decent workflow..

  • @drez yeah, that's exactly the kind of workflow/ui benefit I'm talking about. Seems a really obvious/huge improvement to me but guess everyone uses BM3 differently.
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