Has anybody actually found audio tracks usable ?
I am not talking about just simply recording to audio tracks (I haven't even tried that)
I am talking about simply loading some audio from the browser, and then trying to edit it ?
1 Live stretch doesn't actually work
2 You can change an audio items end point, but not its start point, and even then it is going to take ten times trying to edit the end point while the arranger scrolls back and forth (Same issues as selections in the audio editor)
3 Trying to make an accurate split with the scissors is a complete mess
1 Is a bug
2 BM3 needs bigger obvious grab points for starts and ends, be it sample editor/selections or item start ends in the arranger, infuriating is too simple a word for this, and not being able to adjust start point, i will assume is a bug.
3 The split/scissors is complete nonsense as is, nobody in their right mind would try to do an accurate split using a touchscreen and 6 billion different finger sizes, this should have been thought through a whole lot better.....
1 Turn on scissors
2 A vertical marker appears
3 You move the vertical marker to wherever you like
4 Long hold the vertical marker and a pop up box will appear with left and right arrows for single click sample accurate movement of said marker, hold arrow for faster scrolling
5 Press scissor icon and split is created, scissors mode turned off
While that method is light years of what we currently have (Albeit i may be missing a setting somewhere that makes the scissors usable) it is still not very accurate if we cant zoom vertically to see a good overview of the waveform, Yes you need a good vertical zoom to see accurate transient information, not with pinch (An absolutely horrible method of zooming that should be optional in all parts of BM3) but with +- buttons, +- for vertical +- for horizontal.
(note here, if zooming wasn't a pain, and moving start and end points wasn't a pain or didn't even exist, the scissors thing may not be so noticeable because you could fix by changing start/end points after the fact)
Pinch zooming should only ever be for vertical not horizontal anyway, Myself and most of the population of the planet are not contortionists and rotating our hands 90 degrees to pinch left to right is a complete joke, yes maybe it works on a phone where the phone can be rotated partially and the pinch fingers rotated partially, on an iPad, its a mess, between that and the selection, BM3 is becoming very very hard to use, close to giving up on it (OK exaggeration, but you get my teeth grinding/wanting to smash it off a wall/grrrr face)
Comments
Double tap for full screen waveform is there FYI, then you can click edit and enter the sample editor full screen too, this part is actually very very nice, I know i am in bitch mode today because of sample selection breaking my balls, but yeah they nailed that one
But anyway, you are wrong, enough people hate the selection catch area in the sampler editor too for it to warrant a fix.
But that has literally nothing at all to do with this threads topic haha
In the song view you can adjust the zoom by setting the grid quanitisation from bar to 8th note etc. and using the magnifier buttons there.
Other than some vague UI buttons there's nothing wrong with the audio editor. I've been importing and trimming audio for banks all week without issue and the track audio is no different.
You cant adjust zoom by setting grid, it sets grid, you can zoom horizontally using pinch or + - buttons, not vertically, have you even used audio tracks ?
So if you can do this please say how, because others have confirmed that they can not either.
Edit - seems buggy tho. Weird silence after my loop points and timestrech/bpm confusing me/not seeming to have any effect (think you mentioned that bug earlier)
Edit 2 - actually timestrech/bpm/bars etc seem to be working there too now that I'm doing things more methodically. Too tired to get my head around it properly but its behaving vaguely logically, maybe
Timeline editing of audio should ALWAYS be non destructive.
This video is unlisted, so it isn't for sharing, just for forum use, this is initial release of the app and i don't want people thinking i am trying to put it down, just trying to get the needed updates, so again, no sharing this video.
It's really just a work flow issue. Import or record your audio. Edit them with the sample editor and then arrange them in the song timeline.
Thanks @LucidMusicInc - good info. Working fine for me.
@5pinlink
The video doesn't show the use of the Start/End and Zoom tools. They make it easier. Give them a try. Granted the UI is a little wonky and playback sometimes gets weird which I've cleared by turning Disk Streaming off and on but the basic edit functions and navigation are there.
OK, what exactly are you not getting here, i am talking about non destructive editing on the timeline, I know about the zoom tools,the first video tutorial i made last week shows how to use the zoom tools.
Again, just to reiterate, i am talking about non destructive editing on the timeline, not loading in to the audio editor and creating a new file, if you can change the end point non destructively then you should be able to change the start point non destructively, this is one of these new fangled things they have now called consistency, and is the basis of good UX.
So just to be clear, zoom buttons aside, which i didn't use in this video because, you know, nothing to do with the topic at all, the topic is about the nondestructive editing on the timeline of audio tracks, not samples or new audio files created by loading an audio item in to the audio editor.
So let me ask, do you or have you ever used a DAW, because i do not think you understand what non destructive editing is, I did show it at the end in another DAW, just want to be clear that we all understand what editing non destructively on the timeline means.
What Triton said /\/\
And another point to add in, say i double click a beat, i then click edit sample, i then trim out a snare, i then go back to my arrangement and i am blasting that snare left right and sideways, then i think to myself, oh **** there is this cool hihat roll just before this snare, so i push the snare over and drag out the start of the item to use the hihat roll, aaaaaaaaah no, its now a new audio file and i have to go back to find the original beat, double click it, edit sample blah blah blah blah blah.
Non destructive editing is used on.....well it is used on everything really, it is 2017, for a reason.
Now having said all that, this is actually probably just a bug, like i said, you can already edit the end point non destructively, so probably just an oversight from Intua.
I am fairly sure it is a bug, if you look at the zoomed audio/sample panel when you double click an audio item on the timeline, you can see the end marker, but it looks like the start marker is pushed slightly off screen, so i may report it as a bug.
Yeah a few tweaks t get this sort of stuff working well, it is gonna be a hard push not to be using this full time on the desktop when it drops, but things like non destructive on the timeline and little things like the fade i showed on the video at the end, they are all expected now in a desktop package, and this app deserves to have them.
@5pinlink thank you for your video and detailed explanation about the utility of having efficient timeline non-destructive editing. I hope the developer follows through on realizing the app's potential by implementing significant functions like these.
Thanks for the detailed report, we'll be sure to look into that .
Cheers,
Mathieu.
@5pinlink You don't have to trim the sample to edit the start point.
I admit it's not clear enough, but audio patterns are just containers with a length.
Inside you have a sample, with start and end points you can change in the "EDIT SAMPLE" tab.
If you simply change these bounds, it will change in your pattern
We'll try to clarify all this in the interface.
Cheers,
Vincent.
Take Cubasis for example... they have the exact same issue when you need to get a precise trim to lock the audio sample to the grid you have to go inside the sample clip and zoom in to the start point to trim it.
Will Intua add more features in the future? Of course. So let's not go blathering around on several threads on multiple forums about how "inefficient" this app is to newer and less knowledgable users who will end up using the app inefficiently because of your insistance that the developers mould their app and use precious time and money to fit your workflow...
Edit - Just saw you mentioned 6 x backing vocal layers. So if you wanna chop them all at once then yeah, I guess chopping on timeline view is best for that. I'd probably just export tracks to daw/computer and mouse for that kind of heavy editing tho
There's so many potential Worflow or creative situations/requirements tho. Gonna take a while for intua to encorporate all things in all places (If that's even possible...) to cover all the little nuanced requirements that individuals have in one situation or another.. In the meantime there are workarounds/alt workflows available for most things. I'm sure itll all get ironed out over time
I have found that if you have some shorter audio loops, its better to record them on pads. But for example sending midi to synth that you jam with(its settings, like lfo etc) and want to record a longer take. Then audio track suits better.
I wish there was an looper recorder for audio track where you could record loops to and then drag&drop them on the timeline.