Has anybody actually found audio tracks usable ?

edited July 2017 in General

I am not talking about just simply recording to audio tracks (I haven't even tried that)
I am talking about simply loading some audio from the browser, and then trying to edit it ?
1 Live stretch doesn't actually work
2 You can change an audio items end point, but not its start point, and even then it is going to take ten times trying to edit the end point while the arranger scrolls back and forth (Same issues as selections in the audio editor)
3 Trying to make an accurate split with the scissors is a complete mess

1 Is a bug
2 BM3 needs bigger obvious grab points for starts and ends, be it sample editor/selections or item start ends in the arranger, infuriating is too simple a word for this, and not being able to adjust start point, i will assume is a bug.
3 The split/scissors is complete nonsense as is, nobody in their right mind would try to do an accurate split using a touchscreen and 6 billion different finger sizes, this should have been thought through a whole lot better.....
1 Turn on scissors
2 A vertical marker appears
3 You move the vertical marker to wherever you like
4 Long hold the vertical marker and a pop up box will appear with left and right arrows for single click sample accurate movement of said marker, hold arrow for faster scrolling
5 Press scissor icon and split is created, scissors mode turned off

While that method is light years of what we currently have (Albeit i may be missing a setting somewhere that makes the scissors usable) it is still not very accurate if we cant zoom vertically to see a good overview of the waveform, Yes you need a good vertical zoom to see accurate transient information, not with pinch (An absolutely horrible method of zooming that should be optional in all parts of BM3) but with +- buttons, +- for vertical +- for horizontal.
(note here, if zooming wasn't a pain, and moving start and end points wasn't a pain or didn't even exist, the scissors thing may not be so noticeable because you could fix by changing start/end points after the fact)

Pinch zooming should only ever be for vertical not horizontal anyway, Myself and most of the population of the planet are not contortionists and rotating our hands 90 degrees to pinch left to right is a complete joke, yes maybe it works on a phone where the phone can be rotated partially and the pinch fingers rotated partially, on an iPad, its a mess, between that and the selection, BM3 is becoming very very hard to use, close to giving up on it (OK exaggeration, but you get my teeth grinding/wanting to smash it off a wall/grrrr face)



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  • Double tap for full screen waveform is there FYI, then you can click edit and enter the sample editor full screen too, this part is actually very very nice, I know i am in bitch mode today because of sample selection breaking my balls, but yeah they nailed that one :)

  • The only problem with the zooming as far as I'm concerned is they don't use the conventional symbols so people don't recognise it's there. BM3 have done some considerable "reinventing the wheel" and not all of it is to my liking but in the case of audio editing in fact BM3 has some of the best tools. You can use the select tool and drop the start point anywhere. To adjust the start point drag from the top and to adjust the end point drag from the bottom. The size of the handles doesn't actually matter as it recognises the touch within a reasonable proximity. Anyway for precision just use the arrow buttons on either side of the Start/End-Loop button, one is a larger zoom magnification setting than the other. The left facing arrows are the Start marker and the right facing are the end. The magnifying glass icon is the vertical zoom. In process you can delete selections and insert silence and also fade in and out. It's all there.
  • edited July 2017
    So yeah, audio tracks are not samples in the sampler ;)
    But anyway, you are wrong, enough people hate the selection catch area in the sampler editor too for it to warrant a fix.

    But that has literally nothing at all to do with this threads topic haha
  • By double clicking the sample in the song viewer and tapping edit sample gives you the same sample editor.

    In the song view you can adjust the zoom by setting the grid quanitisation from bar to 8th note etc. and using the magnifier buttons there.

    Other than some vague UI buttons there's nothing wrong with the audio editor. I've been importing and trimming audio for banks all week without issue and the track audio is no different.
  • edited July 2017
    No it isnt lol, you cant even edit start point in the arranger.
    You cant adjust zoom by setting grid, it sets grid, you can zoom horizontally using pinch or + - buttons, not vertically, have you even used audio tracks ?
  • edited July 2017
    Quite extensively. Everything in BM3 adheres to the pattern concept though, if you want to adjust the sample you have to do it in the sample editor not the song arranger. Incidentally you can enlarge the tracks by pinching over the left side where the controls are. Then you can move the sample start with precision by adjusting the grid quantisation in the song editor or just turn the quantisation off. Use the loop markers to set the area you want to zone into. I'll agree that some better zoom tools would be useful. Just sayin you can still use the app very efficiently as is.
  • Are you saying that you can edit the start point of an item, the end point can be edited, the start point cant, i am not talking about where the item starts in the song mode, i am talking about where the sample starts in the item.
    So if you can do this please say how, because others have confirmed that they can not either.
  • edited July 2017
    Double click on an audio clip on an audio track. Click 'edit sample' bottom right of screen ;) can edit start/end etc there :) Not totally sure that's what you're looking for, but seems like maybe?

    Edit - seems buggy tho. Weird silence after my loop points and timestrech/bpm confusing me/not seeming to have any effect (think you mentioned that bug earlier)

    Edit 2 - actually timestrech/bpm/bars etc seem to be working there too now that I'm doing things more methodically. Too tired to get my head around it properly but its behaving vaguely logically, maybe ;) will have proper look again tomorrow..
  • In the sample editor you have three options, grid snap, zero snap and no snap. To lock in a recorded sample hit select mode and touch the part of the sample where you want it to start. Turn the snap mode to zero as in zero crossing. When you have the Start marker set roughly zoom in with the arrow buttons and get the sample start where you want it. Then hit the arrow in the other direction and drag it out until you get to the end point. Trim it slightly longer than it ought to be. After it's trimmed set the bpm. Then switch to grid snap mode and trim the sample so it's a 1/2/4/8 or whatever length loop. Trim it. Save it. Done.
  • @LucidMusicInc thanks man, sounds like you nailed it, will try it tomoro :)
  • edited July 2017
    There you go, pictures are better than words, there is nothing efficient about timeline editing right now in BM3.
    Timeline editing of audio should ALWAYS be non destructive.

    This video is unlisted, so it isn't for sharing, just for forum use, this is initial release of the app and i don't want people thinking i am trying to put it down, just trying to get the needed updates, so again, no sharing this video.
  • edited July 2017
    You're saying you can't get close enough to the transient start point but you haven't used the arrow zoom buttons.

    It's really just a work flow issue. Import or record your audio. Edit them with the sample editor and then arrange them in the song timeline.
  • Thanks @LucidMusicInc - good info. Working fine for me.

    The video doesn't show the use of the Start/End and Zoom tools. They make it easier. Give them a try. Granted the UI is a little wonky and playback sometimes gets weird which I've cleared by turning Disk Streaming off and on but the basic edit functions and navigation are there.

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  • OK, what exactly are you not getting here, i am talking about non destructive editing on the timeline, I know about the zoom tools,the first video tutorial i made last week shows how to use the zoom tools.

    Again, just to reiterate, i am talking about non destructive editing on the timeline, not loading in to the audio editor and creating a new file, if you can change the end point non destructively then you should be able to change the start point non destructively, this is one of these new fangled things they have now called consistency, and is the basis of good UX.

    So just to be clear, zoom buttons aside, which i didn't use in this video because, you know, nothing to do with the topic at all, the topic is about the nondestructive editing on the timeline of audio tracks, not samples or new audio files created by loading an audio item in to the audio editor.

    So let me ask, do you or have you ever used a DAW, because i do not think you understand what non destructive editing is, I did show it at the end in another DAW, just want to be clear that we all understand what editing non destructively on the timeline means.

  • What Triton said /\/\

  • And another point to add in, say i double click a beat, i then click edit sample, i then trim out a snare, i then go back to my arrangement and i am blasting that snare left right and sideways, then i think to myself, oh **** there is this cool hihat roll just before this snare, so i push the snare over and drag out the start of the item to use the hihat roll, aaaaaaaaah no, its now a new audio file and i have to go back to find the original beat, double click it, edit sample blah blah blah blah blah.
    Non destructive editing is used on.....well it is used on everything really, it is 2017, for a reason.

    Now having said all that, this is actually probably just a bug, like i said, you can already edit the end point non destructively, so probably just an oversight from Intua.

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  • edited July 2017

    I am fairly sure it is a bug, if you look at the zoomed audio/sample panel when you double click an audio item on the timeline, you can see the end marker, but it looks like the start marker is pushed slightly off screen, so i may report it as a bug.

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  • Yeah a few tweaks t get this sort of stuff working well, it is gonna be a hard push not to be using this full time on the desktop when it drops, but things like non destructive on the timeline and little things like the fade i showed on the video at the end, they are all expected now in a desktop package, and this app deserves to have them.

  • @5pinlink thank you for your video and detailed explanation about the utility of having efficient timeline non-destructive editing. I hope the developer follows through on realizing the app's potential by implementing significant functions like these.

  • Thanks for the detailed report, we'll be sure to look into that .


  • @5pinlink You don't have to trim the sample to edit the start point.
    I admit it's not clear enough, but audio patterns are just containers with a length.
    Inside you have a sample, with start and end points you can change in the "EDIT SAMPLE" tab.
    If you simply change these bounds, it will change in your pattern

    We'll try to clarify all this in the interface.

  • edited July 2017
    If you are making a snare roll and you want to off set it all you have to do is off set it. Provided you properly trimmed it in the first place and your using each audiotrack for one type of drum sound I see absolutely no issue like you are claiming to be.

    Take Cubasis for example... they have the exact same issue when you need to get a precise trim to lock the audio sample to the grid you have to go inside the sample clip and zoom in to the start point to trim it.

    Will Intua add more features in the future? Of course. So let's not go blathering around on several threads on multiple forums about how "inefficient" this app is to newer and less knowledgable users who will end up using the app inefficiently because of your insistance that the developers mould their app and use precious time and money to fit your workflow...
  • edited July 2017
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  • edited July 2017
    Why wouldn't someone just slice a vocal track to pads tho? And use piano roll for editing instead of fiddling around along the timeline? Seems the obvious tool for that kind of thing? Not saying I'm right, that's just the way I'd probably do it.. I know everyone has different workflow preferences etc.

    Edit - Just saw you mentioned 6 x backing vocal layers. So if you wanna chop them all at once then yeah, I guess chopping on timeline view is best for that. I'd probably just export tracks to daw/computer and mouse for that kind of heavy editing tho ;) ios/touchscreen is normally a vibe killer/pita for these kind of things. I'm not looking at BM3 as best solution for everything daw related.. Just fun/best portable solution for a lot of sampler/daw things. Same as I use ableton for some stuff and export to Sonar for other things (track comping/layers and mixing etc)..

    There's so many potential Worflow or creative situations/requirements tho. Gonna take a while for intua to encorporate all things in all places (If that's even possible...) to cover all the little nuanced requirements that individuals have in one situation or another.. In the meantime there are workarounds/alt workflows available for most things. I'm sure itll all get ironed out over time :)
  • I'm certainly not arguing that editing start points in the song editor isn't a desirable feature. But to say that the audio tracks are unusable is a bit of hyperbole. I'm just trying to put it out there for people reading these threads that you can get the result you want with it already.
  • edited July 2017

    I have found that if you have some shorter audio loops, its better to record them on pads. But for example sending midi to synth that you jam with(its settings, like lfo etc) and want to record a longer take. Then audio track suits better.

    I wish there was an looper recorder for audio track where you could record loops to and then drag&drop them on the timeline.

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