personally i am a fan of bm2 piano roll edit. The floating buttons on the side out of the way. Select your note it pops up and you use it like a game pad. Keep,it simple and easy please.
@5pinlink said:
Not having prefs = less complicated, but it also means that you work the way the software works rather than the software working how you work.
Reaper is a perfect example, takes a while to set up for each user how they want, once its done it is the fastest package on the market.
So it is 50/50.
And we can also take the new mute prefs as an example too, without those prefs the userbase would have never been happy.
Yah it is not like BM3 will likely draw casual users as much either. There is plenty of iOS stuff for them. This would certainly be a reaper-esque crowd I think.
I'm reaching here but swap out that left hand keyboard and put some cursor buttons and pattern edit controls there instead of floating on the pianoroll. Also we need the pattern follow to work just like the song follow.
After about 5 minutes of editing. The arrows just where driving me nuts. Had to really zoom in just to be able to grab the handle and then had to wait for the super zoom to kick in for it to even be able to lengthen the notes or move it.
But had a thought for the mixer. Put the super zoom on the mixer arrows so we can fine to where we want the mixer to stop it.
I miss bm2 midi movement. After playing in there today I really miss that. If only bm2 had a au option lol.
For me simple is always better after playing in bm3 it’s just hard sometimes trying to grab the lil arrows and trying to move stuff. Bm2 highlight your midi and press the arrow which way you wanted it to for short movements.
This seems very problematic for users. I just don’t like the following:
lifting my finger per vertical/horizontal movement for heavy pattern editing is not ideal. My suggestion. Allow double tap OR long press on Tool 1 to change between horizontal/vertical and 4 arrows mode behaviors. Same for Tool 2. But...
Fix the horrible nature of pattern editing after tapping the <> arrows.. Who wants to auto generate patterns/erase patterns in reverse/forward with the small arrows in the way. This has to go. Just use the whole pattern note and grid for making patterns. Arrows this small are best suited for movement. Widen them and find a happy relocation everyone can settle on.
it’s not clear how to deselect something without accidentally creating a new note but I finally figured out how. Use the select tool and individually deselect. Or deselect by holding another empty pad/keys selection. Needs to be clearly specified in manual if it isn’t.
Other small tidbits:
You can hack the super zoom to stay zoomed instead of zooming back out when you let go. Just hold to zoom. If you need further zoom on your selection use -/+ while still holding. Lock the zoom by selecting another pad/key or really just tapping that area Voila! Locked.
EDIT: correction I didn’t know double tapping select toolbar button selects all, not previous. This is Completely redundant and pointless to me. Let users just decide what to select using the 4+ other ways of selecting stuff.
Apparently you have full degree of movement as long as you don’t hold a pattern too long and are swift like a tiger. If you have a multiselection act quickly and don’t hold too long otherwise you’ll end up with a single selection. Or in the case of a single selection no movement at all. Wonky.
And top thread markup design looks nice @5pinlink as well as @Audiogus ‘s markup.
Oh..and why the hell not since I’m on a rant about the pattern editor. Must be me being sick.
Just regarding having 'preference settings'... I've seen / work with products that have become overly complicated to manage and support by providing lots of 'options'. It might not be the case with BM3, in this specific context. However, in my experience, if you start providing more and more 'options' or 'preferences' testing and supporting all permutations becomes challenging.
Might be better to well define the use case, rather than the solution.
"As a user I need to be able to move selected midi notes around the piano roll both vertically and horizontally, and also be able to extend the length of a selection of notes when viewing the piano roll from both zoomed out and zoomed in perspectives in a user friendly, efficient way so that I can spend more time creating music and less time correcting mistakes made using the interface of the application".
This guy is the only one who pointed out something. We need one way that will always be there and known to just get the job done. It may not be for everyone but a solid working one way of doing things. If you want multiple ways to do something that’s fine. But I learned from an old wise man show them only one way, leave all ways for choice, all must be semi-proficient.
I’m done. EDIT: Nope not done. Why would anyone want to move things with dotted lines? They are better as a reference to the grid and your selections that’s it IMO. You only liked the dotted lines because you hate the arrows, or you only like the arrows because you disliked the dotted lines. If the arrows were placed properly within our given toolset, No one cares because everything would move resize nicely. Man I gotta stop. Disappearing now.
@mefisme said:
I’m done. EDIT: Nope not done. Why would anyone want to move things with dotted lines?
Because on a bumpy road or train (yes I am a hillbilly) with my damaged arthritic, carpal tunneled hand, the dotted lines were super easy to select and accurate. No fuss, no muss, no cuss. They spanned a wide region and dragged only in a specific direction, guaranteeing the exact direction I wanted. The way it is now I have to move perfectly horizontal or perfectly vertical at the begining of a movement to lock into the desired direction which is not as guaranteed or easy a movement as it was with the dotted lines. Currently I sometimes find myself accidentaly doing a slight nudge in the wrong direction and being locked into an axis I do not want or even deselecting all the notes I had selected, which increases frustration.
With any of the note movement proposals I have heard, none of them require the dotted lines to be inoperable and deactivated. Give me a theoretical note movement solution and boom, dotted lines would still be a harmless addition, which benefit some decrepit people like me who are aparently droppin beats while clearing landmines in the DMZ.
....
So these are my questions... What is wrong with having the dotted lines work if they do not hinder anyone else and clearly benefit those who apreciated using them? Can’t they just be reactivated along with any other note movement method? No? Yes? Is Gus on the crack again?
I did like the dotted lines for moving notes and tings a lot, and I got used to them while they worked like that. At this point, if they were reenabled, I could see some users not wanting or knowing to use the lines, and if they went to grab something that was outside of the selected range and accidentally grabbed the lines and moved their selection, that would be annoying. Adding a preference, which could be disabled by default in favor of new users using whatever is deemed the “better” way, would be nice.
When did the movement guides (white lines, dotted lines) get pulled? I definitely missed this apparent great feature. I was under the impression many things like accidental note movement, note creation/erasure would have been a much more prevalent problem or that it would have completely conflicted with zoom with the lines.
did the lines conflict with lets say a user who primarily does things with 1 finger, versus the user who moves around alot with 2 fingers, versus the palm rester who's super chill, versus the speedy worker, versus the Apple pencil user.... You get what I'm saying? Prefs sounds like only option it everyone wants everything. This is why I was implying some sort of double tap/hold behavior on toolset to bring up tools on the fly (i guess like Photoshop)
I know I'm going to use the pattern editor regardless which way it is setup. It's called practice (exercising my muscle memory). Sorry for ranting last night. I'm not feeling well.
@mefisme said:
When did the movement guides (white lines, dotted lines) get pulled? I definitely missed this apparent great feature. I was under the impression many things like accidental note movement, note creation/erasure would have been a much more prevalent problem or that it would have completely conflicted with zoom with the lines.
did the lines conflict with lets say a user who primarily does things with 1 finger, versus the user who moves around alot with 2 fingers, versus the palm rester who's super chill, versus the speedy worker, versus the Apple pencil user.... You get what I'm saying? Prefs sounds like only option it everyone wants everything. This is why I was implying some sort of double tap/hold behavior on toolset to bring up tools on the fly (i guess like Photoshop)
I do get what you are saying. There could very well have been a scenario that the dotted lines completely shit the bed on but I do not know what it is and am therefore still baffled why they were removed. It was awesome.
We updated to 3.0.5 (maybe 3.0.4) and suddenly white lines didn’t do what they used to, and movement was then on done with the arrows. Maybe beta testers know why, but I haven’t personally read anything as to why. It was a surprise to anyone not beta testing.
I do get what you are saying. There could very well have been a scenario that the dotted lines completely shit the bed on but I do not know what it is and am therefore still baffled why they were removed. It was awesome.
They should return then in some similar fashion. Especially if they were there at release. I bought the app in July but didn't dive in til like a month and a half ago. I was too focused on learning how other things worked and never moved a pattern with lines. I definitely need to stop talking about things I never used. An official word as to their removal would be the kind thing to do for users.
Next battle I’ll try real hard to pump something out in a couple hours. It’s not my strong suit! I toil and loop and tweak and a lot of times for nothing of substance. I admit it.
Look, here’s a tease of my Xmas submission, to prove I’m working on it, but also that it’s not very far along at all, and also to strike fear in the hearts of anyone else who might also be using the same backing track for theirs =P
Comments
personally i am a fan of bm2 piano roll edit. The floating buttons on the side out of the way. Select your note it pops up and you use it like a game pad. Keep,it simple and easy please.
Yah it is not like BM3 will likely draw casual users as much either. There is plenty of iOS stuff for them. This would certainly be a reaper-esque crowd I think.
After about 5 minutes of editing. The arrows just where driving me nuts. Had to really zoom in just to be able to grab the handle and then had to wait for the super zoom to kick in for it to even be able to lengthen the notes or move it.
But had a thought for the mixer. Put the super zoom on the mixer arrows so we can fine to where we want the mixer to stop it.
It's what i named it and nobody corrected me hahahaha.
I would guess the official name is probably movement guides or something ?
My choice is prefs, no idea what the devs will choose
I do miss using the dotted white lines....
Everything was working ace for me with them.
imho - I don't see why it was changed at all.
Just my .02
I just love the bm2 piano roll. The options, editing and way it moves was just fine for me. Wish they could incorporate it somehow.
I am currently sacrificing a plate of meatballs to the Gods of Intua. Be merciful o Great Ones!!
I’ll miss you ‘dotted line movement’ and always think fondly of our time together.
Well something still needs to be done, the current way of working isn't to the liking of a large portion of users.
@mathieugarcia
So just out of curiosity, why was dotted line movement of notes removed? Any chance it will come back?
I miss bm2 midi movement. After playing in there today I really miss that. If only bm2 had a au option lol.
For me simple is always better after playing in bm3 it’s just hard sometimes trying to grab the lil arrows and trying to move stuff. Bm2 highlight your midi and press the arrow which way you wanted it to for short movements.
This seems very problematic for users. I just don’t like the following:
lifting my finger per vertical/horizontal movement for heavy pattern editing is not ideal. My suggestion. Allow double tap OR long press on Tool 1 to change between horizontal/vertical and 4 arrows mode behaviors. Same for Tool 2. But...
Fix the horrible nature of pattern editing after tapping the <> arrows.. Who wants to auto generate patterns/erase patterns in reverse/forward with the small arrows in the way. This has to go. Just use the whole pattern note and grid for making patterns. Arrows this small are best suited for movement. Widen them and find a happy relocation everyone can settle on.
it’s not clear how to deselect something without accidentally creating a new note but I finally figured out how. Use the select tool and individually deselect. Or deselect by holding another empty pad/keys selection. Needs to be clearly specified in manual if it isn’t.
Other small tidbits:
You can hack the super zoom to stay zoomed instead of zooming back out when you let go. Just hold to zoom. If you need further zoom on your selection use -/+ while still holding. Lock the zoom by selecting another pad/key or really just tapping that area Voila! Locked.
EDIT: correction I didn’t know double tapping select toolbar button selects all, not previous. This is Completely redundant and pointless to me. Let users just decide what to select using the 4+ other ways of selecting stuff.
Apparently you have full degree of movement as long as you don’t hold a pattern too long and are swift like a tiger. If you have a multiselection act quickly and don’t hold too long otherwise you’ll end up with a single selection. Or in the case of a single selection no movement at all. Wonky.
And top thread markup design looks nice @5pinlink as well as @Audiogus ‘s markup.
Oh..and why the hell not since I’m on a rant about the pattern editor. Must be me being sick.
This guy is the only one who pointed out something. We need one way that will always be there and known to just get the job done. It may not be for everyone but a solid working one way of doing things. If you want multiple ways to do something that’s fine. But I learned from an old wise man show them only one way, leave all ways for choice, all must be semi-proficient.
I’m done. EDIT: Nope not done. Why would anyone want to move things with dotted lines? They are better as a reference to the grid and your selections that’s it IMO. You only liked the dotted lines because you hate the arrows, or you only like the arrows because you disliked the dotted lines. If the arrows were placed properly within our given toolset, No one cares because everything would move resize nicely. Man I gotta stop. Disappearing now.
Because on a bumpy road or train (yes I am a hillbilly) with my damaged arthritic, carpal tunneled hand, the dotted lines were super easy to select and accurate. No fuss, no muss, no cuss. They spanned a wide region and dragged only in a specific direction, guaranteeing the exact direction I wanted. The way it is now I have to move perfectly horizontal or perfectly vertical at the begining of a movement to lock into the desired direction which is not as guaranteed or easy a movement as it was with the dotted lines. Currently I sometimes find myself accidentaly doing a slight nudge in the wrong direction and being locked into an axis I do not want or even deselecting all the notes I had selected, which increases frustration.
With any of the note movement proposals I have heard, none of them require the dotted lines to be inoperable and deactivated. Give me a theoretical note movement solution and boom, dotted lines would still be a harmless addition, which benefit some decrepit people like me who are aparently droppin beats while clearing landmines in the DMZ.
....
So these are my questions... What is wrong with having the dotted lines work if they do not hinder anyone else and clearly benefit those who apreciated using them? Can’t they just be reactivated along with any other note movement method? No? Yes? Is Gus on the crack again?
Why does anybody want white lines ?
Because they worked well and the arrows are crap, its that simple really.
(This is my opinion, nothing more, but that was what was asked for in the question above)
I did like the dotted lines for moving notes and tings a lot, and I got used to them while they worked like that. At this point, if they were reenabled, I could see some users not wanting or knowing to use the lines, and if they went to grab something that was outside of the selected range and accidentally grabbed the lines and moved their selection, that would be annoying. Adding a preference, which could be disabled by default in favor of new users using whatever is deemed the “better” way, would be nice.
Make it an option in the menu for preference
When did the movement guides (white lines, dotted lines) get pulled? I definitely missed this apparent great feature. I was under the impression many things like accidental note movement, note creation/erasure would have been a much more prevalent problem or that it would have completely conflicted with zoom with the lines.
did the lines conflict with lets say a user who primarily does things with 1 finger, versus the user who moves around alot with 2 fingers, versus the palm rester who's super chill, versus the speedy worker, versus the Apple pencil user.... You get what I'm saying? Prefs sounds like only option it everyone wants everything. This is why I was implying some sort of double tap/hold behavior on toolset to bring up tools on the fly (i guess like Photoshop)
I know I'm going to use the pattern editor regardless which way it is setup. It's called practice (exercising my muscle memory). Sorry for ranting last night. I'm not feeling well.
I do get what you are saying. There could very well have been a scenario that the dotted lines completely shit the bed on but I do not know what it is and am therefore still baffled why they were removed. It was awesome.
Original thread (may have been others around this time) https://intua.net/forums/index.php?p=/discussion/comment/24180
We updated to 3.0.5 (maybe 3.0.4) and suddenly white lines didn’t do what they used to, and movement was then on done with the arrows. Maybe beta testers know why, but I haven’t personally read anything as to why. It was a surprise to anyone not beta testing.
They should return then in some similar fashion. Especially if they were there at release. I bought the app in July but didn't dive in til like a month and a half ago. I was too focused on learning how other things worked and never moved a pattern with lines. I definitely need to stop talking about things I never used. An official word as to their removal would be the kind thing to do for users.
Freeze!
Rock!
A rang dang diggidy dang a dang
I have definitely noticed vision and dreams of passion in this thread
Seriously ?
Both of you talking shizhen in this thread, neither of you have a beat battle entry done lol
Next battle I’ll try real hard to pump something out in a couple hours. It’s not my strong suit! I toil and loop and tweak and a lot of times for nothing of substance. I admit it.
Look, here’s a tease of my Xmas submission, to prove I’m working on it, but also that it’s not very far along at all, and also to strike fear in the hearts of anyone else who might also be using the same backing track for theirs =P
Love it, if thats as far as you get enter it !!