Apple needs to share how they make GarageBand so stable. I’ve been throwing more AU instruments and effects at it than BeatMaker. Not one crash yet. I’m using all Arturia, Moog, Sugarbytes and UVI products that support AU. BM3 seems to be handling much differently.
@5pinlink said:
I dont avoid anything except IAA, which i think should be shot in the face.
Only crashes i have ever had personally have been caused by AUv3s, but i dont do a lot of things others do a lot.
I don’t use many IAA instruments in BM3 now that we have AUv3 but I must say I used hundreds of IAAs in BM2 with no crashes. Zombie IAAs were an issue but I learned to check for them in BM2, open and manually close the zombie IAAs after sessions. BM2 was the most stable host app for IAA instruments. The only apps I had issues with were those that were actually written for Audiobus but sorta worked as IAAs with limited functionality as in no IAA transport, return to IAA host, etc.
I can not back it up with hard statistics, but I can’t escape the feeling that over the last 24 months IAA has become more problematic in iOS. I seem to get far more zombies these days than before.
Just came across this bit I copied some time back, I think from the Audiobus forum. Definitely helpful and major kudos to whoever wrote it. What we’re referring to as zombies they call ghosts.
Kill ghost apps trick.
Press the power button till slide to turn off comes. Then press and hold home button till it kicks you back to the home screen. This kills all zombie apps. I do this before and after any music sessions I have
check and see. All the suspicious ports will have vanished.
You have to let go of the power button and then hold the home button. If you keep holding the power button while also holding the home button you'll force reboot your device instead of just clearing the memory.
@5pinlink said:
I dont avoid anything except IAA, which i think should be shot in the face.
Only crashes i have ever had personally have been caused by AUv3s, but i dont do a lot of things others do a lot.
I don’t use many IAA instruments in BM3 now that we have AUv3 but I must say I used hundreds of IAAs in BM2 with no crashes. Zombie IAAs were an issue but I learned to check for them in BM2, open and manually close the zombie IAAs after sessions. BM2 was the most stable host app for IAA instruments. The only apps I had issues with were those that were actually written for Audiobus but sorta worked as IAAs with limited functionality as in no IAA transport, return to IAA host, etc.
I can not back it up with hard statistics, but I can’t escape the feeling that over the last 24 months IAA has become more problematic in iOS. I seem to get far more zombies these days than before.
Just came across this bit I copied some time back, I think from the Audiobus forum. Definitely helpful and major kudos to whoever wrote it. What we’re referring to as zombies they call ghosts.
Kill ghost apps trick.
Press the power button till slide to turn off comes. Then press and hold home button till it kicks you back to the home screen. This kills all zombie apps. I do this before and after any music sessions I have
check and see. All the suspicious ports will have vanished.
You have to let go of the power button and then hold the home button. If you keep holding the power button while also holding the home button you'll force reboot your device instead of just clearing the memory.
Indeed, that’s a soft reboot. That should work on most systems, (although it apparently it’s no longer supported on some iPhone models - or so I’ve heard).
@5pinlink said:
I dont avoid anything except IAA, which i think should be shot in the face.
Only crashes i have ever had personally have been caused by AUv3s, but i dont do a lot of things others do a lot.
I don’t use many IAA instruments in BM3 now that we have AUv3 but I must say I used hundreds of IAAs in BM2 with no crashes. Zombie IAAs were an issue but I learned to check for them in BM2, open and manually close the zombie IAAs after sessions. BM2 was the most stable host app for IAA instruments. The only apps I had issues with were those that were actually written for Audiobus but sorta worked as IAAs with limited functionality as in no IAA transport, return to IAA host, etc.
I can not back it up with hard statistics, but I can’t escape the feeling that over the last 24 months IAA has become more problematic in iOS. I seem to get far more zombies these days than before.
Just came across this bit I copied some time back, I think from the Audiobus forum. Definitely helpful and major kudos to whoever wrote it. What we’re referring to as zombies they call ghosts.
Kill ghost apps trick.
Press the power button till slide to turn off comes. Then press and hold home button till it kicks you back to the home screen. This kills all zombie apps. I do this before and after any music sessions I have
check and see. All the suspicious ports will have vanished.
You have to let go of the power button and then hold the home button. If you keep holding the power button while also holding the home button you'll force reboot your device instead of just clearing the memory.
Indeed, that’s a soft reboot. That should work on most systems, (although it apparently it’s no longer supported on some iPhone models - or so I’ve heard).
Actually doesnt work on my Mini 2s or Air 2, it just reboots the pad ??
having a nightmare day today, constant crashing, AU instruments not saving the preset, same with fx plugins. Can't seem to clear BM3 by soft reset, takes about 4-7 tries. plugins not reloading. BM3 saved sessions not actually saving. Lost about 5 hours of work today and need to go back 2 days to get a stable session. that's about 15 hours of creation lost.
of course there will be always some plug that is unstable and the cause of the problem, but which one?
this is all me, just thinking aloud.... but i do wonder if the ios platform will ever be stable enough to make serious music on its own!
@tk32 it's a good analogy. whilst it does bring some comfort, i do feel that there's too much happening outside of the control of the artist.
technology is great, but also a pain in the arse. if i were a potter, i would be able to learn from my previous creations and failed attempts. as an ios musician, it's wtf do i need to do to make it work they way i want it to work?
at the moment, for me, it always seems to be at the stage of automation. i get the pieces together, put them in the order i want, then try to apply the automation to create tension and interest. And it falls over, and takes me back not just one step but a few.
but, as you point out, this is the struggle of the artist.
however, if i move myself in to the shoes of the developer, i ask myself, is the technology moving so fast that it's hard to keep up the development in order to maintain a stable environment, whilst fitting in the new features!
using your analogy, a potter will eventually find the right clay to work with, source the colours, have equipment that can be relied on. if the quality of clay was forever changing there would be no artristry from the potters, nothing unique.
i say this in all good faith, i hope the ios platform slows down a little. I want it to work but there needs to be stability in order for the ios music app developers to get their own creations working well together.
this is my frustration at the moment, and it reached a new high today.
@cstep333 we re all there it can be super super super frustrating.
Through trial and error I’ve learnt which plugins give me little to no stability issues including recalling presets etc. There’s not a huge bunch but enough to make good progress.
I’ve learnt to avoid all audio damage plugins unless you can be bothered with recording the output to a sample so you can switch the plugin off. Not ideal but hey.
Also again a drag but I find automation works more often when it’s drawn in as opposed to using macros or knob pararmeter tweaking.
I find that this paired down way of working almost hones in your creativity more than having a multitude of tools at your disposal where options will be endless. That sometimes helps with my frustration.
For what it's worth, the rules of this month's battle (build an entire track with just one synth) has meant almost everyone participating has encountered a crash or bug - mostly related to having more than 3 copes of the same AUv3 loaded at once - and they've all had to find workarounds in order to continue.
Unfortunately we can't talk our tracks much until after voting closes next week (since we have decided to keep the tracks anonymous) but many of us have had to find ways of avoiding these bugs and crashes, either by not using certain plugins, rendering audio stems as we go, re-sampling synth sounds to pads, or sometimes just stripping things back and going minimal with a simpler 3-bank melody, bass and rhythm structure.
Adversity can sometimes be your friend. If you can find a way to steer your (metaphorical) ship through a nasty storm - and keep a smile on your face while doing it - then you can truly call yourself an artist.
3 internal banks (kik, hat, perc) plus an AU bank. plus 4 Aux FX channels. hardly complex!
this is what i mean, there's no stability, can't realise my full creativity.
2 weeks ago I deleted everything that i have been working on for 10months.
all the tracks that i put a great deal of effort into, tracks that stalled because of a bug or some other compatibility issue (i didnt even back them up, not interested, lost the flow, the feeling).
I reinstalled only the apps i wanted, i use 2017 10.5 ipad pro. I kept everything minimal, but i still get these problems, still stall. still can not finish the track.
i don't scream for help at the first chance. but today i needed to vent. from 10am til 3 i was making progress, i was feeling the track was coming together. 2 weeks of work, 5-7 hours a day, i was moving forward, i was 80% there.
I save the sessions regularly (lessons learnt from the past.) today, after those 5 hours, and 5 hours the day before and 7 from wednesday have all been lost. about 12 sessions have been corrupted. the midi automation per clip didn't get saved, the presets are lost, the parameter automation is mixed up and not working as expected. the AU doesn't load. and i can not clear BM3 using the soft reset.
today isn't the first time. but today is the point which i have decided that Ios isn't a tool for serious output. maybe a sketch pad. but unless apple make a stable platform, unless the devs can work with a stable platform to deliver stable apps that work together, i won't have a stable app to make music and i can not rely on that platform.
to paraphrase, if the clay, water and equipment don't work well together, then i can't create a pot to piss in, let alone a plate to eat off.
@Audiogus it can be any, choose any AU plugin and there will be a problem at some point.
but the 2 things that do frustrate me are 1. not able to rely on the saved project sessions 2. i need to reset my ipad maybe 4 or 5 times (sometimes more) before i can properly close down BM3 and clear it from the background.
@cstep333 said: @Audiogus it can be any, choose any AU plugin and there will be a problem at some point.
but the 2 things that do frustrate me are 1. not able to rely on the saved project sessions 2. i need to reset my ipad maybe 4 or 5 times (sometimes more) before i can properly close down BM3 and clear it from the background.
anyway, thanks for your help.
Man that just sounds crazy, and annoying as hell. I've never had those problems right there, and I don't know if I've seen anything like that posted on the forum. I could be wrong about that, but it seems like something is bad wrong that isn't just an iPad running B3. I would backup and restore or start as a new iPad, as a last ditch effort. Forgive me if you said you already tried all that.
@cstep333 yes, I hit bugs but nothing like this. I know you said it can be any app but you should really try listing the apps here. One regularly used app might be causing most of the problems.
@GusGranite other than BM3 i don't have a regular APP, it could be any 3rd party plugin, for example pick one from iSem, Zeeon, Sm1 or Troublemaker. Indeed, it could be a session with no 3rd party plugins. this is why i can't be more specific. if i could narrow it down to a plug-in or a way i am working i would stop using the plugin or change the way i work, just like i would do on the laptop.
As others have said above, we've never heard of a B3 user who is having such regular crashes as you describe. Sure we all experience frustrations, but its not like we feel like giving up at all.
Therefore I think your problem must one of the following:
some particular technique or habit you are regularly using is exposing a weakness in B3 (this may be related to the way you apply automation, or macros, for example).
there is something more generally wrong with your iPad.
.
The solution is (1) is to try achieving what you want with a different technique while we wait for general bug fixes and stability improvements coming in future updates. Solution to (2) is probably to backup your files and factory reset your iPad, as @ronji suggested.
@cstep333 you could upload your session project here so we can troubleshoot for you and try and replicate. You have a whole forum of people willing to help, though it seems you have made your mind up, so good luck to you on logic. Logic Pro x is amazing so I’m sure you’ll make great music, but b3 is just so much more fun 👍
@groovey unfortunately, i don't live in the free world, i live in china, in a relatively remote area of the country. using the cloud requires me to use my VPN service, uploading anything beyond a few kb can take hours, even days. downloading seems to be ok though.
that said, i've stabilised the current project by removing the automation. but i would also be reluctant to share any of my work, even if i could upload it.
For what it's worth, I've had 1 crash in the past 3+ months since I started using BM3. Also on latest ipad and ios. I don't use any factory banks or any samples. I use Poison, Model D, Addictive Pro and Ruinsmake FM Au3 and Nave through IAA. I have most of the Audio Damage Au3 plug ins that I use regularly and Kosomonaut and several Kymatica IAA plugs.
My work flow is that I only load one bank at a time with a plug in instrument and any effects and record my parts to audio files in the timeline. Then I repeat that process. I delete all of my effects when not recording to audio. So I am more or less just working with audio files and maybe one instrument and a few effects loaded at any time. At first I tried just keeping everything midi and all plug ins loaded in sessions but I was finding a lot of issues with IAA plug ins not loading correctly when I started the project and some Audio Damage Au3 effects not saving presets or settings after quitting project so I just moved to this workflow and it's been very stable.
@silentvortex said:
For what it's worth, I've had 1 crash in the past 3+ months since I started using BM3. Also on latest ipad and ios. I don't use any factory banks or any samples. I use Poison, Model D, Addictive Pro and Ruinsmake FM Au3 and Nave through IAA. I have most of the Audio Damage Au3 plug ins that I use regularly and Kosomonaut and several Kymatica IAA plugs.
My work flow is that I only load one bank at a time with a plug in instrument and any effects and record my parts to audio files in the timeline. Then I repeat that process. I delete all of my effects when not recording to audio. So I am more or less just working with audio files and maybe one instrument and a few effects loaded at any time. At first I tried just keeping everything midi and all plug ins loaded in sessions but I was finding a lot of issues with IAA plug ins not loading correctly when I started the project and some Audio Damage Au3 effects not saving presets or settings after quitting project so I just moved to this workflow and it's been very stable.
Not ideal though because once you print the effects to an audio file you can’t go back to change. And ineveitably you will want to when you start mixing things together. I don’t find that works for me.
@silentvortex said:
For what it's worth, I've had 1 crash in the past 3+ months since I started using BM3. Also on latest ipad and ios. I don't use any factory banks or any samples. I use Poison, Model D, Addictive Pro and Ruinsmake FM Au3 and Nave through IAA. I have most of the Audio Damage Au3 plug ins that I use regularly and Kosomonaut and several Kymatica IAA plugs.
My work flow is that I only load one bank at a time with a plug in instrument and any effects and record my parts to audio files in the timeline. Then I repeat that process. I delete all of my effects when not recording to audio. So I am more or less just working with audio files and maybe one instrument and a few effects loaded at any time. At first I tried just keeping everything midi and all plug ins loaded in sessions but I was finding a lot of issues with IAA plug ins not loading correctly when I started the project and some Audio Damage Au3 effects not saving presets or settings after quitting project so I just moved to this workflow and it's been very stable.
Not ideal though because once you print the effects to an audio file you can’t go back to change. And ineveitably you will want to when you start mixing things together. I don’t find that works for me.
It's not an easy work flow to get into, but a lot of producers work that way. Design, bounce to audio, rearrange and tweak. It helps if you keep the instruments in a separate session or saved to a bank so you can go back and tweak and rebounce if necessary. I'm really trying this work flow out on the current battle.
@ronji said:
It's not an easy work flow to get into, but a lot of producers work that way. Design, bounce to audio, rearrange and tweak. It helps if you keep the instruments in a separate session or saved to a bank so you can go back and tweak and renounce if necessary. I'm really trying this work flow out on the current battle.
But the whole point is to try and stop b3 from crashing by not having any instruments loaded up, so am not clear how you can keep them in the bank in case you need to rebounce, as the crashing will still happen
Comments
Apple needs to share how they make GarageBand so stable. I’ve been throwing more AU instruments and effects at it than BeatMaker. Not one crash yet. I’m using all Arturia, Moog, Sugarbytes and UVI products that support AU. BM3 seems to be handling much differently.
Just came across this bit I copied some time back, I think from the Audiobus forum. Definitely helpful and major kudos to whoever wrote it. What we’re referring to as zombies they call ghosts.
Kill ghost apps trick.
Press the power button till slide to turn off comes. Then press and hold home button till it kicks you back to the home screen. This kills all zombie apps. I do this before and after any music sessions I have
check and see. All the suspicious ports will have vanished.
You have to let go of the power button and then hold the home button. If you keep holding the power button while also holding the home button you'll force reboot your device instead of just clearing the memory.
Indeed, that’s a soft reboot. That should work on most systems, (although it apparently it’s no longer supported on some iPhone models - or so I’ve heard).
Actually doesnt work on my Mini 2s or Air 2, it just reboots the pad ??
I must say by not using the stock drum kits that are stacked with loads of Fx, BM3 has been ok and more stable.
knock on wood
Glad my suggestion helped
It did ... thanks
having a nightmare day today, constant crashing, AU instruments not saving the preset, same with fx plugins. Can't seem to clear BM3 by soft reset, takes about 4-7 tries. plugins not reloading. BM3 saved sessions not actually saving. Lost about 5 hours of work today and need to go back 2 days to get a stable session. that's about 15 hours of creation lost.
of course there will be always some plug that is unstable and the cause of the problem, but which one?
this is all me, just thinking aloud.... but i do wonder if the ios platform will ever be stable enough to make serious music on its own!
just a rant, very frustrating day!
It's not much consolation when you've lost work, but remember there are many other more volatile mediums than iOS music.
Take pottery for example. Firing a piece is like rolling a dice. You roll a 1 or 2 and the whole thing cracks or explodes.
Real art often requires this tension and risk. It makes the victories all that more sweeter.
@tk32 it's a good analogy. whilst it does bring some comfort, i do feel that there's too much happening outside of the control of the artist.
technology is great, but also a pain in the arse. if i were a potter, i would be able to learn from my previous creations and failed attempts. as an ios musician, it's wtf do i need to do to make it work they way i want it to work?
at the moment, for me, it always seems to be at the stage of automation. i get the pieces together, put them in the order i want, then try to apply the automation to create tension and interest. And it falls over, and takes me back not just one step but a few.
but, as you point out, this is the struggle of the artist.
however, if i move myself in to the shoes of the developer, i ask myself, is the technology moving so fast that it's hard to keep up the development in order to maintain a stable environment, whilst fitting in the new features!
using your analogy, a potter will eventually find the right clay to work with, source the colours, have equipment that can be relied on. if the quality of clay was forever changing there would be no artristry from the potters, nothing unique.
i say this in all good faith, i hope the ios platform slows down a little. I want it to work but there needs to be stability in order for the ios music app developers to get their own creations working well together.
this is my frustration at the moment, and it reached a new high today.
thank for caring.
@cstep333 we re all there it can be super super super frustrating.
Through trial and error I’ve learnt which plugins give me little to no stability issues including recalling presets etc. There’s not a huge bunch but enough to make good progress.
I’ve learnt to avoid all audio damage plugins unless you can be bothered with recording the output to a sample so you can switch the plugin off. Not ideal but hey.
Also again a drag but I find automation works more often when it’s drawn in as opposed to using macros or knob pararmeter tweaking.
I find that this paired down way of working almost hones in your creativity more than having a multitude of tools at your disposal where options will be endless. That sometimes helps with my frustration.
i only use 4 fx plugins and 1 instrument AU forrmat.
but your right, if it doesn't work, go back to what you know works, and works well.
back to logic and the laptop for me.
For what it's worth, the rules of this month's battle (build an entire track with just one synth) has meant almost everyone participating has encountered a crash or bug - mostly related to having more than 3 copes of the same AUv3 loaded at once - and they've all had to find workarounds in order to continue.
Unfortunately we can't talk our tracks much until after voting closes next week (since we have decided to keep the tracks anonymous) but many of us have had to find ways of avoiding these bugs and crashes, either by not using certain plugins, rendering audio stems as we go, re-sampling synth sounds to pads, or sometimes just stripping things back and going minimal with a simpler 3-bank melody, bass and rhythm structure.
Adversity can sometimes be your friend. If you can find a way to steer your (metaphorical) ship through a nasty storm - and keep a smile on your face while doing it - then you can truly call yourself an artist.
3 internal banks (kik, hat, perc) plus an AU bank. plus 4 Aux FX channels. hardly complex!
this is what i mean, there's no stability, can't realise my full creativity.
2 weeks ago I deleted everything that i have been working on for 10months.
all the tracks that i put a great deal of effort into, tracks that stalled because of a bug or some other compatibility issue (i didnt even back them up, not interested, lost the flow, the feeling).
I reinstalled only the apps i wanted, i use 2017 10.5 ipad pro. I kept everything minimal, but i still get these problems, still stall. still can not finish the track.
i don't scream for help at the first chance. but today i needed to vent. from 10am til 3 i was making progress, i was feeling the track was coming together. 2 weeks of work, 5-7 hours a day, i was moving forward, i was 80% there.
I save the sessions regularly (lessons learnt from the past.) today, after those 5 hours, and 5 hours the day before and 7 from wednesday have all been lost. about 12 sessions have been corrupted. the midi automation per clip didn't get saved, the presets are lost, the parameter automation is mixed up and not working as expected. the AU doesn't load. and i can not clear BM3 using the soft reset.
today isn't the first time. but today is the point which i have decided that Ios isn't a tool for serious output. maybe a sketch pad. but unless apple make a stable platform, unless the devs can work with a stable platform to deliver stable apps that work together, i won't have a stable app to make music and i can not rely on that platform.
to paraphrase, if the clay, water and equipment don't work well together, then i can't create a pot to piss in, let alone a plate to eat off.
Which AU is on the AU bank?
@Audiogus it can be any, choose any AU plugin and there will be a problem at some point.
but the 2 things that do frustrate me are 1. not able to rely on the saved project sessions 2. i need to reset my ipad maybe 4 or 5 times (sometimes more) before i can properly close down BM3 and clear it from the background.
anyway, thanks for your help.
Man that just sounds crazy, and annoying as hell. I've never had those problems right there, and I don't know if I've seen anything like that posted on the forum. I could be wrong about that, but it seems like something is bad wrong that isn't just an iPad running B3. I would backup and restore or start as a new iPad, as a last ditch effort. Forgive me if you said you already tried all that.
@cstep333
Woah, over the past year I have experienced these things in isolated pockets but it is like you hit the Bermuda Triangle.
@cstep333 yes, I hit bugs but nothing like this. I know you said it can be any app but you should really try listing the apps here. One regularly used app might be causing most of the problems.
@GusGranite other than BM3 i don't have a regular APP, it could be any 3rd party plugin, for example pick one from iSem, Zeeon, Sm1 or Troublemaker. Indeed, it could be a session with no 3rd party plugins. this is why i can't be more specific. if i could narrow it down to a plug-in or a way i am working i would stop using the plugin or change the way i work, just like i would do on the laptop.
As others have said above, we've never heard of a B3 user who is having such regular crashes as you describe. Sure we all experience frustrations, but its not like we feel like giving up at all.
Therefore I think your problem must one of the following:
.
The solution is (1) is to try achieving what you want with a different technique while we wait for general bug fixes and stability improvements coming in future updates. Solution to (2) is probably to backup your files and factory reset your iPad, as @ronji suggested.
@cstep333 really frustrating for you though. That sucks.
@cstep333 you could upload your session project here so we can troubleshoot for you and try and replicate. You have a whole forum of people willing to help, though it seems you have made your mind up, so good luck to you on logic. Logic Pro x is amazing so I’m sure you’ll make great music, but b3 is just so much more fun 👍
@groovey unfortunately, i don't live in the free world, i live in china, in a relatively remote area of the country. using the cloud requires me to use my VPN service, uploading anything beyond a few kb can take hours, even days. downloading seems to be ok though.
that said, i've stabilised the current project by removing the automation. but i would also be reluctant to share any of my work, even if i could upload it.
Just out of pure interest, which iteration of IOS is on your Pro @cstep333 ?
For what it's worth, I've had 1 crash in the past 3+ months since I started using BM3. Also on latest ipad and ios. I don't use any factory banks or any samples. I use Poison, Model D, Addictive Pro and Ruinsmake FM Au3 and Nave through IAA. I have most of the Audio Damage Au3 plug ins that I use regularly and Kosomonaut and several Kymatica IAA plugs.
My work flow is that I only load one bank at a time with a plug in instrument and any effects and record my parts to audio files in the timeline. Then I repeat that process. I delete all of my effects when not recording to audio. So I am more or less just working with audio files and maybe one instrument and a few effects loaded at any time. At first I tried just keeping everything midi and all plug ins loaded in sessions but I was finding a lot of issues with IAA plug ins not loading correctly when I started the project and some Audio Damage Au3 effects not saving presets or settings after quitting project so I just moved to this workflow and it's been very stable.
Not ideal though because once you print the effects to an audio file you can’t go back to change. And ineveitably you will want to when you start mixing things together. I don’t find that works for me.
Agreed
It's not an easy work flow to get into, but a lot of producers work that way. Design, bounce to audio, rearrange and tweak. It helps if you keep the instruments in a separate session or saved to a bank so you can go back and tweak and rebounce if necessary. I'm really trying this work flow out on the current battle.
But the whole point is to try and stop b3 from crashing by not having any instruments loaded up, so am not clear how you can keep them in the bank in case you need to rebounce, as the crashing will still happen