New select features in 3.09 and above break things (UNRESOLVED)

edited February 2018 in Support

Why does one push of SELECT cause audio output to stop with literally everything? It's killing the ability to perform. Any suggestions for me to work around this. I don't know of any other way to select something without triggering the pad. Am I going to have to mute it diret, then tap it just to use momentary select. This is the one thing that is driving me up the walls with the new update. I need suggestions to a workaround. I'm working in performance view does selecting in mixer view kill audio?

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  • Select hasn't just killed repeats. It's killing audio of plugins now too. Which means I can't select a new pad while the play head is running.

  • Or select a new pad to play it's keys. Sigh.

  • Or prepare another bank for triggering.

  • edited January 2018

    Note off messages for the new select copy cut paste pads should be on those buttons themselves not actually select if that's even what the problem is. Whether that's to prevent an app crash when actually cutting copying pads, there has to be some solution. Before 3.09, audio was not cut out and repeats we're not turned off either. This defeats the purpose of even having a momentary/toggle option in focus actions for select for external controllers. Especially since SELECT is ever so present in "PERFORMANCE VIEW".

    It’s stuck in production land on a performance page. Sorry for me being not chill, but IMO this in dire need of a fix.

  • Dancing with myself, oh oh...

  • edited January 2018

    @lukesleepwalker said:
    Dancing with myself, oh oh...

    Good song. Not sure I understand the reference. Maybe it's cuz I was on a tangent conversation with myself.

  • edited January 2018

    Sigh, killing audio? Weird. I'll look into that one for sure @mefisme
    Any detailed steps to reproduce the audio killing? If I select playing pads, they don't stop, strange...

  • edited January 2018

    @mathieugarcia said:
    Sigh, killing audio? Weird. I'll look into that one for sure @mefisme
    Any detailed steps to reproduce the audio killing? If I select playing pads, they don't stop, strange...

    It's 3 AM here and difficult to explain with words. I will have to do a video as soon as I get time. I have to work tomorrow.

    But I’ll try:

    • Pre 3.09 SELECT MODE and KEYS MODE and REPEATS simultaneously behaved differently before cut,paste,copy,clear was introduced into the performance page. Both for touch users and even external controllers with momentary/toggle focus actions set.

    • Since 3.05 or 3.06 I had been using all MODES on performance page as they are the direct tools to working with a performance mindset.

    • The app used to have a key combo either on screen or with an external controller that allowed me to be in KEYS on one pad (toggle/momentary, then toggle/momentary SELECT let go and be in keys mode from a totally different pad. I now have to make 4 key presses to do this. Tap select, tap pad, tap keys, tap select again.

    • With SELECT MODE disabling REPEATS a performance transition between let’s say a fill to another pad can no longer happen. Think drums to playing a synth.

    • If a MIDI controller is sending a NOTEON value (a toggle) while the play head is running (not sure if when it’s stopped) a single tap of SELECT is killing that NOTE ON message for me and killing the audio output)

    • On both touch of iPad AND/OR an external controller, plugins that are sequencing midi to other pads or to themselves as an instrument (in my case Rozeta Rhythm, XOX) a single tap of SELECT mode are killing the audio output of those plugins as well.

    • This has nothing to do with recorded patterns as their MIDI has already been captured. This is if your just playing to the transport. Aka performing.

    • SINGLE CHANNEL introduced bank independence. I’m working with 8 banks simultaneously. Any press of SELECT anywhere kills the audio output.

    • This is the best explanation I can give without a video. I’m really tired. Will try to do a video if you need one. Hope this helps! Thanks for your concern as well. This app is a true masterpiece. I apologize if I come off wrong, I’m just being exceptionally watchful of what changes because I do plan on using this in live scenarios. And right now, SELECT mode turned into a production tool on a PERF page in my opinion.

  • Confirmed. Select kills the output on my iPad, too. No time to test properly right now, but choosing select seems to cause all samples to cease playing (regardless of the bank they’re in), Au’s only if they are on the currently selected bank.

  • @denx said:
    Confirmed. Select kills the output on my iPad, too. No time to test properly right now, but choosing select seems to cause all samples to cease playing (regardless of the bank they’re in), Au’s only if they are on the currently selected bank.

    Thank you for your confirmation. Thank you!

  • edited January 2018

    You’re welcome. And sane, as far as I can see ;)

  • Same here!

  • edited January 2018

    Select mode will now restore keys and repeat properly. Other improvements were made as well.

  • edited January 2018

    @mathieugarcia said:
    Select mode will now restore keys and repeat properly. Other improvements were made as well.

    Thank you sir. Very much. Question though, what about single select mode behavior with audio output? What will be the actual behavior of select minus copy/paste controls? And will we will still have those controls as they are needed?

  • I still have to find out a way to reproduce the audio killing bug when entering SELECT. I mainly focused on the KEYS/REPEAT behavior and the overall implementation! One thing is clear: it shouldn't kill audio!

    Cheers :-)
    Mathieu.

  • yeah, I couldn't replicate this, maybe because my setup is just an iPad and maybe some headphones haha, and I don't really perform at all with BM3. glad some others could confirm this but a video would probably be way helpful!

  • @ronji said:
    yeah, I couldn't replicate this, maybe because my setup is just an iPad and maybe some headphones haha, and I don't really perform at all with BM3. glad some others could confirm this but a video would probably be way helpful!

    This is somewhat of a multi-problem that affects everyone differently in bad ways. Try sequencing Rozeta (a virtual midi controller)in a single Bank for the plugins audio output issue. Just press play in the transport and tap SELECT mode. Real hardware is the same problem but affects all audio across all banks.

    Go figure I’m too tied up to do a video for the weekend.

  • edited January 2018

    If at any point I get the chance I'll do the iPad only video and external hardware video unless devs get to it first. Or someone else does a video. :)

  • @mathieugarcia said:
    I still have to find out a way to reproduce the audio killing bug when entering SELECT. I mainly focused on the KEYS/REPEAT behavior and the overall implementation! One thing is clear: it shouldn't kill audio!

    Cheers :-)
    Mathieu.

    Sending a midi controller NOTEON message continuously should do it (a toggle) or any plugin sending midi. Don't know if you have any controllers available.

  • Ok, I think I did as you suggested, and I'm experiencing SELECT stopping midi, but not audio. Is this what you're experiencing, or is there another case where the audio would actually be stopped?

  • edited January 2018

    @ronji said:
    Ok, I think I did as you suggested, and I'm experiencing SELECT stopping midi, but not audio. Is this what you're experiencing, or is there another case where the audio would actually be stopped?

    Rozetta bassline in your video is sending note on/offs faster than you can catch it. I did here the MIDI output misfire in your video on one note. Try tapping select faster and see if the audio stops outputting or use a different Midi plugin.

  • @ronji you are on the right track though as the whole problem is select stopping midi. It could also be possible your experiencing midi drop out but not audio because your selections we're done in one shot sample. Meaning your midi note was already produced. You would have to tap select at the exact time the note was produced to lose audio.

  • edited January 2018

    @mefisme I toggle select mode on twice in the video, once from the edit page and once from the perform page, and both times the sample plays out. The second time is when the sample is triggered at a low velocity and pitch, so it's hard to hear. But yes, I did suspect the difference might be that I tested with one shot and not hold. In both cases, it's really all midi related, right? If midi was still holding, the audio wouldn't stop. Right?

    So is the select mode sending midi offs?

  • edited January 2018

    @ronji you got it. And it used to work. Now imagine sending hold values or playing on a physical controller with one shots while simultaneously tapping SELECT to prep another pad. audio cut out everywhere. Sorry this is so hard to explain. If you load drum samples on a plugin like a sequencer that behaves differently you should see the problem immediately. This is essentially mimicking my behavior as a performer of real pads.

  • edited January 2018

    @>; @ronji said:

    So is the select mode sending midi offs?

    Yes exactly. It never used to which is why I said at the top thread that select itself should not send note offs at all. Rather, just the new features. Copy cut paste clear pad. That is exactly what seems to be happening. And I had a tangent with myself about it because I no longer could do what I did before. And no one told me. Just imagine if I hadn’t noticed and went out there with this in public. Ouch for musician, ouch for BM3, ouch to newcomers.

  • Kinda like I am now. Going off the deep end. If this gets put back, you can record your performance silently to a pattern and no one would know. ;) truly powerful stuff.

  • Aaaah i think this is related to the issue we reported way back.
    If you want to hear it @ronji, set up a rozetta sequencer in to Troublemaker (@brambos made an update to TB to make it less noticable, TB used to just go silent and stop working entirely) then click on the browser tab and then prefs cog ;)

    @mathieugarcia @brambos rounded it down to note offs going missing.
    Never had it with audio though, just MIDI so far.

  • @5pinlink said:
    Aaaah i think this is related to the issue we reported way back.
    If you want to hear it @ronji, set up a rozetta sequencer in to Troublemaker (@brambos made an update to TB to make it less noticable, TB used to just go silent and stop working entirely) then click on the browser tab and then prefs cog ;)

    @mathieugarcia @brambos rounded it down to note offs going missing.
    Never had it with audio though, just MIDI so far.

    Indeed, but that was a very specific Troublemaker (or tb303 clone) issue because those can get into an infinite slide mode where they’ll just decay endlessly into silence. Not sure if other sound/synth sources suffer from the same phenomenon :)

  • No it was mossing some note ons and note offs too when switching, which cant be rozetta or TB.

  • edited January 2018

    @5pinlink I appreciate letting me know the history as to why this might be happening. That helps. Well now it happens to all audio from external midi. Plugin or not. And that’s my issue I guess. It’s broke as a performance tool but not a production tool. And since it’s on the performance page you could see why I flipped out. Lol. :) I’m totally calm here and patient. But I did want to point it out to save this ever so important concept.

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