Save only samples that are in use / remove the samples that are not in use

Hi. I'm creating bank presets with full 64 samples/ loops and then using the most suitable ones of them in my song. Would be really handy to be able to optimize memory usage by removing unused samples at certain point of my workflow. I have hundreds of presets and if I use e.g. 4 banks in my IPad Pro, I have to manually start removing samples from my presets. Also when I want to save a session, I dont want to save the unused samples to take all the disk space, but used ones I want to save just to ensure that session is playing correctly even if library changes.
Sorry for a long explanation

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Comments

  • +1 it would also be useful to see which pattern(s) required samples are used in

  • this is a good suggetion along with purging unused samples

  • This is essentially a disable pad request isn't it?

  • @mefisme said:
    This is essentially a disable pad request isn't it?

    No it is a purge, so unused samples would be removed from sessions.

  • @5pinlink said:

    @mefisme said:
    This is essentially a disable pad request isn't it?

    No it is a purge, so unused samples would be removed from sessions.

    Like the recordings or samples folder? +1 hands down.

  • Imagine you have a drumkit bank loaded, it comes with 128 samples, but you only use 2 samples in your session, purge scans the session, sees you have only used 2 samples and gets rid of the rest, they are not removed from the original kit or storage, just the session.

  • If we take the 'purge un-needed samples' to the extreme it could cause chaos...

    Imagine if you have a multi-sampled instrument (or a drum-kit) and only use a few of the keys/sounds and purge it, those 'un-needed' samples would be deleted from the session and when you decide, sh*t i need to move a note it would be a no-no since the sample would already be deleted...

    I would love to have an option to choose if the samples are to be referenced or copied to the session.
    If I make a 'change' to a referenced sample from within the session a copy would be made to keep the original safe.

    On the other hand if I need to make permanent changes to the referenced sample I would could be done in something similar to the 'Sample Lab' in BM2 where it was possible to edit the samples without attaching them to a session first.

    Being a Renoise/Tracker user I'm used to always keeping a copy in my 'project file' since that's done automagically when loading a sample. This way I can mangle it as much as I want without fear of loosing the original...

  • Why would that be a no no, its a sample based instrument, just reload it if you decide you want to change the melody.
    Also samples are always copies when opened, unless something has changed, even stream from disk creates a streaming cache, any edits you do to a sample wont affect the original sample.

  • yea let's do like classic DAW's and include an "clear all unused samples" and also a freeze function. I think that will help overall RAM/Computer/Storage usage issues in an umbrella-like fashion.

  • @5pinlink said:
    Why would that be a no no, its a sample based instrument, just reload it if you decide you want to change the melody.
    Also samples are always copies when opened, unless something has changed, even stream from disk creates a streaming cache, any edits you do to a sample wont affect the original sample.

    So when you open the same sample into several pads and mangle chop tune them etc, they don’t affect the original sample at all ? Each of those pads contains a new copy?

  • edited April 2018

    The most useful aspect of a purge for me is when exporting and selecting banks/pads I would know that any selectable pad actually is used and won’t be a blank export.

  • @groovey said:

    @5pinlink said:
    Why would that be a no no, its a sample based instrument, just reload it if you decide you want to change the melody.
    Also samples are always copies when opened, unless something has changed, even stream from disk creates a streaming cache, any edits you do to a sample wont affect the original sample.

    So when you open the same sample into several pads and mangle chop tune them etc, they don’t affect the original sample at all ? Each of those pads contains a new copy?

    They all reference the same source file but none of the chop/tune etc is actually destructive to the source file.

  • @Audiogus said:

    @groovey said:

    @5pinlink said:
    Why would that be a no no, its a sample based instrument, just reload it if you decide you want to change the melody.
    Also samples are always copies when opened, unless something has changed, even stream from disk creates a streaming cache, any edits you do to a sample wont affect the original sample.

    So when you open the same sample into several pads and mangle chop tune them etc, they don’t affect the original sample at all ? Each of those pads contains a new copy?

    They all reference the same source file but none of the chop/tune etc is actually destructive to the source file.

    Thanks. If you have a really long sample though and only want to use a small section, does it help with cpu etc if you save the trimmed shorter sample as a new one ?

  • edited April 2018

    @groovey said:

    @Audiogus said:

    @groovey said:

    @5pinlink said:
    Why would that be a no no, its a sample based instrument, just reload it if you decide you want to change the melody.
    Also samples are always copies when opened, unless something has changed, even stream from disk creates a streaming cache, any edits you do to a sample wont affect the original sample.

    So when you open the same sample into several pads and mangle chop tune them etc, they don’t affect the original sample at all ? Each of those pads contains a new copy?

    They all reference the same source file but none of the chop/tune etc is actually destructive to the source file.

    Thanks. If you have a really long sample though and only want to use a small section, does it help with cpu etc if you save the trimmed shorter sample as a new one ?

    In my tests yes, but from the banks posted for this months competition, it seems nobody else really cares, so ymmv.

  • edited April 2018

    @groovey said:

    @Audiogus said:

    @groovey said:

    @5pinlink said:
    Why would that be a no no, its a sample based instrument, just reload it if you decide you want to change the melody.
    Also samples are always copies when opened, unless something has changed, even stream from disk creates a streaming cache, any edits you do to a sample wont affect the original sample.

    So when you open the same sample into several pads and mangle chop tune them etc, they don’t affect the original sample at all ? Each of those pads contains a new copy?

    They all reference the same source file but none of the chop/tune etc is actually destructive to the source file.

    Thanks. If you have a really long sample though and only want to use a small section, does it help with cpu etc if you save the trimmed shorter sample as a new one ?

    I you use ‘trim’ on a sample to make it smaller you do automaticly get a new version. If you trim DOGBARK.WAV you get DOGBARK[001].wav in your sessions samples folder.

    Performance is increased as well.

  • @Audiogus said:

    @groovey said:

    @Audiogus said:

    @groovey said:

    @5pinlink said:
    Why would that be a no no, its a sample based instrument, just reload it if you decide you want to change the melody.
    Also samples are always copies when opened, unless something has changed, even stream from disk creates a streaming cache, any edits you do to a sample wont affect the original sample.

    So when you open the same sample into several pads and mangle chop tune them etc, they don’t affect the original sample at all ? Each of those pads contains a new copy?

    They all reference the same source file but none of the chop/tune etc is actually destructive to the source file.

    Thanks. If you have a really long sample though and only want to use a small section, does it help with cpu etc if you save the trimmed shorter sample as a new one ?

    I you use ‘trim’ on a sample to make it smaller you do automaticly get a new version. If you trim DOGBARK.WAV you get DOGBARK[001].wav in your sessions samples folder.

    Performance is increased as well.

    Thanks. So theres no need to ‘save as’ sample unless you want to save it in the main directory outsied of the session, as it’s automatically done ?

  • @groovey said:

    @Audiogus said:

    @groovey said:

    @Audiogus said:

    @groovey said:

    @5pinlink said:
    Why would that be a no no, its a sample based instrument, just reload it if you decide you want to change the melody.
    Also samples are always copies when opened, unless something has changed, even stream from disk creates a streaming cache, any edits you do to a sample wont affect the original sample.

    So when you open the same sample into several pads and mangle chop tune them etc, they don’t affect the original sample at all ? Each of those pads contains a new copy?

    They all reference the same source file but none of the chop/tune etc is actually destructive to the source file.

    Thanks. If you have a really long sample though and only want to use a small section, does it help with cpu etc if you save the trimmed shorter sample as a new one ?

    I you use ‘trim’ on a sample to make it smaller you do automaticly get a new version. If you trim DOGBARK.WAV you get DOGBARK[001].wav in your sessions samples folder.

    Performance is increased as well.

    Thanks. So theres no need to ‘save as’ sample unless you want to save it in the main directory outsied of the session, as it’s automatically done ?

    Yup yup

  • Good housekeeping will save you from losing work, Save and rename the sample accordingly, then go to the browser and reopen it, never ever rely on save as or automatic saves.

  • I am too lazy to play it safe and whatever I lose just wasn’t meant to be.

  • @5pinlink said:
    Good housekeeping will save you from losing work, Save and rename the sample accordingly, then go to the browser and reopen it, never ever rely on save as or automatic saves.

    You mean, if you chop and mangle etc a sample, you shouldn’t rely on it being auto saved. You suggest to save it each time after you have affected it the way you want ? But is it necessary to go to browser and open up the sample again ? Isn’t saving it as a new sample in the session enough, as that what you are now working with ?

  • @groovey said:

    @5pinlink said:
    Good housekeeping will save you from losing work, Save and rename the sample accordingly, then go to the browser and reopen it, never ever rely on save as or automatic saves.

    You mean, if you chop and mangle etc a sample, you shouldn’t rely on it being auto saved. You suggest to save it each time after you have affected it the way you want ? But is it necessary to go to browser and open up the sample again ? Isn’t saving it as a new sample in the session enough, as that what you are now working with ?

    I think I know what 5pinlink is talking about and every now and then... when things go wrong... when there is a disturbance in the force... BM3 can do bad things. About one in a hundred projects I would get ‘Cannot find DOGBARK[004].WAV’. Sometimes I could find it somewhere in the sessions folders, in a previous iteration of the session, copy it to the appropriate session folder currently getting the error and all is well. Other times I would find the file but the contents were wrong... and sometimes I could just not find the file. More than 99% of the time though the auto saved bracket numbered trimmed wav files have been fine for me. To manually resave and load all my trims is just not worth it for me but to each their own. In the end I am sitting on hundreds of sketches to maybe one day find their way to finish on PC so if once in a blue moon one ejects itself, eh, less work later hehe.

  • edited April 2018

    Quick question:

    If I load a 1mb sample (loop.wav) from my 'Imports' folder and then proceed to make 5 consecutive trims/edits, I assume each incremental version loop[001].wav — loop[004].wav gets saved into my 'Unsaved sessions' folder? ...permanently adding 3-4mb of unused wavs to my BM3 folders?

    When I eventually save my session, if I choose to 'Copy samples' then the latest version loop[004].wav gets copied (again) to my new session folder and the link to the sample is updated, otherwise the bank will continue referencing the copy saved in 'Unsaved sessions'?

    Is this correct?

    If so, you can imagine how quickly user's folders can bloat after doing some basic audio edits and trims.. especially on larger files.. and we're all far too frightened to try delete anything in Unsaved sessions without a proper Purge feature (as I learnt the hard way several months back)!

    p.s. I'd love for there to be a 'Package' command in the save menu that bundles the project plus all referenced samples into an eaisly-archivable and shareable ZIP file

  • Yah things can get messy quick. Every few months i copy the whole database to PC intact then do a cleanup in bm3, resaving keeper sessions with 'copy samples' and grabbing anything i messed up back from the PC. At first i thought it would be brutal slow process but it was much quicker and smoother than I thought it would be. Ahhhh, that nice clean database smell after.

  • I have zero mess, I have zero projects with missing samples, I empty out my unsaved sessions regularly and lose nothing at all.

    It may seem like extra work to save samples with a readable name and reload them before saving etc, but thems your choices.

  • So when bm does incrimental saves of a sample after you’re trimming etc it saves the entire original sample and not just the trimmed version ? That doesn’t sound right ?if you trim out 5 mb from a 10 mb sample it will keep just the 5 mb left ?
    Also does it not automatically save all of these new samples into your session if you’ve done a ‘save as’ meaning they won’t be stored in ‘unsaved sessions’.?

  • edited April 2018

    @5pinlink said:
    I have zero mess, I have zero projects with missing samples, I empty out my unsaved sessions regularly and lose nothing at all.

    It may seem like extra work to save samples with a readable name and reload them before saving etc, but thems your choices.

    I'll try it for a bit and see if it doesn't cramp my style...

    uhh, so what exactly do you do?

  • Apologies @groovey, I caused some confusion with my post. Obviously each incremental save is only as big as the file after trimming.

    So if I open loop.wav (1mb) and trim it in half, loop[001].wav will only be 500kb

  • This sort of thing is partly why I say, ahh screw it, make a mess, burn the boats on the beach and leave the dead for the birds. This is my mass chaos sketcher for now anyway.

    Is there a trick to seeing the whole filename?

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